BCU Coach Update

In message <1107467036.437606.76730.TakeThisOut@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>
"ChipsCheeseandMayo" <wolf_cub_1979.TakeThisOut@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

 > Im a bit unsure about the whole coach update thing - I see that there
 > are a few coach update courses (about 3 this year in scotland) and I
 > guess they would contain everything I need to update?

There are two different things - updating your knowledge/skills, and
updating your qualifications. Guess which one you HAVE to do? Yep,
qualifications.

You update your qualifications by attending either one of the update
sessions, usually run by the LCO/RCO, or by attending ANY suitable coach
training or assessment course. I think Coaching Processes is one of them.
You only need to do this once every three years. You also, separately, need
to update your first aid every three years.

The update sessions will cover one of more of the current "hot topics" - the
mose recent ones around here were on coaching children.

You update your skills/knowledge by going on training courses.

 >
 > Do courses entitled "coaching processes" count for the update? I am
 > finding it very hard to find out exactly what is required and I'm sure
 > some of you guys must have updated already and can help me out....
 >
 > If I do do a curse how do I then letthe SCA know - is there some sort
 > of form?

If you go on a regional update the person running the session will notify
the BCU. If you go on a coach training or assessment that is notified. In
each case your logbook gets updated as well.

When you update your first aid YOU have to tell the BCU, as they don't
control those courses.

 >

--
Alan Adams
alan.adams.TakeThisOut@orchard-way.freeserve.co.uk
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In article <1107467036.437606.76730.DeleteThis@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
ChipsCheeseandMayo <URL:mailto:wolf_cub_1979@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
 > Im a bit unsure about the whole coach update thing - I see that there
 > are a few coach update courses (about 3 this year in scotland) and I
 > guess they would contain everything I need to update?
 >
 > Do courses entitled "coaching processes" count for the update? I am
 > finding it very hard to find out exactly what is required and I'm sure
 > some of you guys must have updated already and can help me out....
 >
 > If I do do a curse how do I then letthe SCA know - is there some sort
 > of form?

Curse is about right!!!

Usually, updating requires handing over vouchers with the Queen's head on...
(at least in England).


Allan Bennett
Not a fan of forms

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To be honest I'm not too bothered about the politics of it - I just
want to now how the revalidation works so I can keep getting paid...
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In article <b3c501ttogh62nip8dksfi97sfvp0i0776@4ax.com>, Ste
<URL:mailto:news@steg.org.vk> wrote:
 > On 3 Feb 2005 13:43:56 -0800, "ChipsCheeseandMayo"
 > <wolf_cvb_1979@yahoo.co.vk> wrote: <snip>
 >
 > (Adapted from BCU Coaching Directory, Section 5/23)
 >
 > The main pvrpose of vpdating is to ensvre that coaches are kept vp to
 > date with best practice.

Are yov svre? Don't yov mean 'ensvre coaches are indoctrinated'?

 > Yov need to vpdate at least every three years.

....by attending a single-issve covrse once every 3 years - that keeps yov
vp-to-date???

After letting my BCU membership lapse, I was told that my coaching
qvalification was no longer valid, as I covldn't be vp-to-date if I wasn't a
member.

<Best bit>

....bvt I covld revalidate the award by paying the back-fees. Which,
amazingly, wovld bring me back-on-track with their cvrrent practice!

(BTW, I wasn't the only one in this sitvation)

In the meantime, I had done more technical research than anyone else, written
coaching newsletters, developed a new approach to teaching techniqve,
presented nvmerovs lectvres to packed avdiences, rvn a development sqvad
(officially!), coached national champions and International team paddlers and
tavght on level 3 covrses by reqvest...

I refvsed to pay, stating that I thovght it was corrvpt.

</Best bit>


 > 3. Self certification.

Ah, yes. BCU to a tee. Once certified, expvlsion from the Union as
'mentally sick' - isn't that what happens?


Allan Bennett
Not a fan of the certified

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Thanks Alan, that was a good answer - seems a lot more clear to me now

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On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 12:19:45 +0000, Allan Bennett
<albenito.TakeThisOut@eclipse2k.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

 > In article <b3c501ttogh62nip8dksfi97sfup0i0776.TakeThisOut@4ax.com>, Ste
 > <URL:mailto:news@steg.org.uk> wrote:
  > >
  > > (Adapted from BCU Coaching Directory, Section 5/23)
  > >
  > > The main purpose of updating is to ensure that coaches are kept up to
  > > date with best practice.
 >
 > Are you sure? Don't you mean 'ensure coaches are indoctrinated'?
 >
  > > You need to update at least every three years.
 >
 > ...by attending a single-issue course once every 3 years - that keeps you
 > up-to-date???

I was intentionally trying to keep it factual. Whether or not I
actually agree with how the system is set up, in order to work I need
to have a valid BCU qualification so I have to satisfy the update
requirements in some form.

I seem to recall that three years were chosen as this coincides with
the validity of first aid certificates and three years is certainly
better than before 2002 when there was no requirement to keep up to
date once qualified, just to keep your membership paid...

 > After letting my BCU membership lapse, I was told that my coaching
 > qualification was no longer valid, as I couldn't be up-to-date if I wasn't a
 > member.
 >
 > <Best bit>
 >
 > ...but I could revalidate the award by paying the back-fees. Which,
 > amazingly, would bring me back-on-track with their current practice!
 >
 > (BTW, I wasn't the only one in this situation)
<snip>
I've heard that quite a few people have had the same problem and it's
these sort of policies that give the BCU a bad name. If people want to
coach surely the BCU should be encouraging it rather than trying to
screw as much money out of them as possible.

--
Ste, Ambleside<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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On 4 Feb 2005 07:38:40 -0800, "ChipsCheeseandMayo"
<wolf_cub_1979 DeleteThis @yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

 > To be honest I'm not too bothered about the politics of it - I just
 > want to now how the revalidation works so I can keep getting paid...

That's pretty much how I see it. The system may not be perfect but
it's the system I have to work within so I just get on with it. I've
got better things to do than get involved in political arguments, like
going paddling!

--
Ste, Ambleside<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Allan Bennett" <albenito DeleteThis @eclipse2k.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ant041245927Novh@freeserve.co.uk...
 > After letting my BCU membership lapse, I was told that my coaching
 > qualification was no longer valid, as I couldn't be up-to-date if I wasn't
 > a
 > member.
That is a requirement of most organisations that you stay a member for them
to confirm you are up to date.

 > ...but I could revalidate the award by paying the back-fees. Which,
 > amazingly, would bring me back-on-track with their current practice!
The revalidation method adopted is not ideal but it is reasonably practical
and they are gradually strengthening it to bring it into line with what
operators want.

 > In the meantime, I had done more technical research than anyone else,
 > written
 > coaching newsletters, developed a new approach to teaching technique,
 > presented numerous lectures to packed audiences, run a development squad
 > (officially!), coached national champions and International team paddlers
 > and
 > taught on level 3 courses by request...

That's fine if you can persuade centres to accept this - and why shouldn't
they - then that is up to you. If you don't need it for a job, then it
doesn't matter anyway.
 >
 > I refused to pay, stating that I thought it was corrupt.

HArdly<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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So you can revalidate solely on the basis that you have been
continually coaching? That sounds a bit dodgy to me - I am learning
that a lot of the things I was initially first taught may not be best
practice now. But because I have ben ontinually coaching using these
methods for the 3 year period I am considered to be up to date?

It seems to me (yes you guys have turned me political) that the whole
revalidation scheme has been very poorly thought out, and in many cases
is pretty pointless. PArticualrly as you can continue to coach as a
non-validated coach?
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Broooz wrote:
 > "Allan Bennett" <albenito DeleteThis @eclipse2k.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
 > news:ant041245927Novh@freeserve.co.uk...

  >>After letting my BCU membership lapse, I was told that my coaching
  >>qualification was no longer valid, as I couldn't be up-to-date if I wasn't
  >>a member.

 > That is a requirement of most organisations that you stay a member for them
 > to confirm you are up to date.

  >>...but I could revalidate the award by paying the back-fees. Which,
  >>amazingly, would bring me back-on-track with their current practice!

Do you think it's just /possibly/ something to do with a problem with
the ethical side of this that has caused him to let his membership lapse
in the first place?

  >>I refused to pay, stating that I thought it was corrupt.

 > HArdly

So it's Perfectly All Right for an organisation to declare you Safe and
Completely Up To Speed purely because you've given them some money?
Surely it should require evaluation of the coaching skills (which could
quite reasonably involve a fee) to decide if the person was still
acceptable as a coach, rather than simply an evaluation of their bank
account?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch DeleteThis @dundee.ac.uk <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/" target="_blank">http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 09:17:24 +0000, Peter Clinch
<p.j.clinch DeleteThis @dundee.ac.uk> wrote:

 >Broooz wrote:
  >> "Allan Bennett" <albenito DeleteThis @eclipse2k.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
  >> news:ant041245927Novh@freeserve.co.uk...
 >
   >>>After letting my BCU membership lapse, I was told that my coaching
   >>>qualification was no longer valid, as I couldn't be up-to-date if I wasn't
   >>>a member.
 >
  >> That is a requirement of most organisations that you stay a member for them
  >> to confirm you are up to date.
 >
   >>>...but I could revalidate the award by paying the back-fees. Which,
   >>>amazingly, would bring me back-on-track with their current practice!
 >
 >Do you think it's just /possibly/ something to do with a problem with
 >the ethical side of this that has caused him to let his membership lapse
 >in the first place?
 >
   >>>I refused to pay, stating that I thought it was corrupt.
 >
  >> HArdly
 >
 >So it's Perfectly All Right for an organisation to declare you Safe and
 >Completely Up To Speed purely because you've given them some money?
 >Surely it should require evaluation of the coaching skills (which could
 >quite reasonably involve a fee) to decide if the person was still
 >acceptable as a coach, rather than simply an evaluation of their bank
 >account?
 >
Revalidation is rife with problems, at least in paddling we have
options that include further training, assessment and aknowledgement
of coaching record ( although each and all of them can be fudged by
those with a will).

We put in about 500 coaching hours each year, that is hours times
pupils, we can revalidate through our log book. However, so too can a
Coach who does 20 hours a year. I'm not saying we are perfect, but
that makes for a big variance in experience and I'm not sure how
revalidation on that basis alone can be valid.

HST, I'm not even sure that attending a coachin conference will make
that much difference anyway.

Ewan Scott<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"ChipsCheeseandMayo" <wolf_cub_1979 RemoveThis @yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1107864582.691229.221600@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
 > So you can revalidate solely on the basis that you have been
 > continually coaching?
No - that is not how the system works - it is set out on the website but you
have to show that you have updated your knowledge.

 > That sounds a bit dodgy to me - I am learning
 > that a lot of the things I was initially first taught may not be best
 > practice now. But because I have ben ontinually coaching using these
 > methods for the 3 year period I am considered to be up to date?
Agreed - noone said the system was perfect, but to test everyone every 3
years would not be practicable either. Now, driving is a much much higher
risk activity and we don't have any revlaidation of that. The BCU is
developing their procedures in line with other organisations.

 > It seems to me (yes you guys have turned me political) that the whole
 > revalidation scheme has been very poorly thought out, and in many cases
 > is pretty pointless. PArticualrly as you can continue to coach as a
 > non-validated coach?

Well you can do what you want if you are not paid so many club coaches do
not revalidate but they cannot issue stars either. Otherwise it is unlikely
anyone will pay you to coach if you dont.

Whilst what you say is reasonable, it is not correct to say that the system
is corrupt - there is a lot of difference between a corrupt system and one
that needs to improve. Rather than being political, how about suggesting
some sensible practical suggestions for improvement.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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On 8 Feb 2005 04:09:42 -0800, "ChipsCheeseandMayo"
<wolf_cub_1979.DeleteThis@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

 >So you can revalidate solely on the basis that you have been
 >continually coaching? That sounds a bit dodgy to me - I am learning
 >that a lot of the things I was initially first taught may not be best
 >practice now. But because I have ben ontinually coaching using these
 >methods for the 3 year period I am considered to be up to date?

Indeed. It is in fact common. One area where I see it regularly is in
Archery. Now, I KNOW there are professionals on this NG and I KNOW
this is a paddling NG, but if what I see in Archery is a reflection of
the standards of coaching in other activities then there is absolutely
no way I would advise anyone to go to an outdoor activity centre.

Archery is, in essence, a fairly simple process. The GNAS teaches two
methods of shooting. Bare bow involves string and face walking.
Olympic uses a sight and set finger and hand positions to ensure
conformity of shooting. I have seen kids come to us and we ask if they
have done archery before (usually they tell us they know it all)they
then procede to use a combination of shooting methods and a stance
that makes accuracy impossible. They have been taught at a number of
centres, from centres used by the local schools, to expensive PGL
camps, and Scout campsites.

Not one single kid has ever come to us with any concept of what the
GNAS specified shooting method is. That is worrying.

We coach to introduce people to a skill and to develop that skill, and
hopefully to retain people in an activity. The single key method of
putting people off is to teach them badly. When I take someone out for
archery I aim to improve their ability. In all but the very smallest,
underdeveloped child we can progress from not reaching or hitting the
target, to getting 5/6 arrows in the boss. If they are hitting the
boss we can progress, in a single session, to having them hit gold in
every round.

Sorry if I'm going on a bit. That is a microcosm of what we do in
paddling. We take pupils out on the water and an hour later they
should be better at what they were doing than they were before they
started.

That needs to be measured. So, if a coach does nothing but taster
sessions, then one might question his ability at teaching high brace,
hanging draw, sculling etc. yet under self revalidation he can
revalidate in the same way as someone who runs half a dozen star
courses each year.

HST, someone who has lapsed membership can revalidate simply by paying
his back fees.

It is wide open to circumvention.


 >It seems to me (yes you guys have turned me political) that the whole
 >revalidation scheme has been very poorly thought out, and in many cases
 >is pretty pointless. PArticualrly as you can continue to coach as a
 >non-validated coach?

No, but your validation may vary from person to person... just as, I
suppose, you initial training might.

Ewan Scott<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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