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Cantelever Kayak Rack?

 
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user

External


Since: Jan 22, 2006
Posts: 204



(Msg. 1) Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:03 pm
Post subject: Cantelever Kayak Rack?
Archived from groups: rec>boats>paddle (more info?)

Got a surf ski on order.

Would like to move from this: http://tinyurl.com/2l3mve
to an outdoor version of this: http://tinyurl.com/3d2way

The idea being to minimize the footprint and make mowing the lawn
around it easier.

My first thought is to dig two post holes nestled into the line
of forsythia in the first link, put a vertical length of schedule
40 PVC in each, pour concrete, saw the PVC off flush at ground
level, and then insert the rack's vertical members into the PVC.

But what to use for the rack's vertical/horizontal members?

Seems like galvanized plumbing pipe isn't all that structural,
the threads at connection points would be rust-prone, the inside
probably isn't galvanized, and it wouldn't be very flexible in
terms of adding/relocating cantilevers.

Wood seems like a workable fallback position - albeit subject to
rot as water accumulates in the PVC it's inserted into (there's
really no hope for drainage holes bc the soil is clay and shale).

Some kind of galvanized square stuff? They use something like
that for traffic signs around here, and it seems tb holding up
pretty well.

Or am I missing some solution that's simpler than the holes in
the ground - yet minimizes the footprint?

My biggest reservation is that I'll be creating a situation where
the rack's vertical members are sitting in a pool of water that
never goes away.

Anybody have some insights?
--
PeteCresswell

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Drew Dalgleish

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Since: Nov 10, 2005
Posts: 42



(Msg. 2) Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Cantelever Kayak Rack? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

How about keeping the rack you have and laying concrete patio stones
under it so there's no grass to cut? Or just plant a couple 4 x 4
pressure treated posts directly in the ground and build off them.

>Got a surf ski on order.
>
>Would like to move from this: http://tinyurl.com/2l3mve
>to an outdoor version of this: http://tinyurl.com/3d2way
>
>The idea being to minimize the footprint and make mowing the lawn
>around it easier.
>
>My first thought is to dig two post holes nestled into the line
>of forsythia in the first link, put a vertical length of schedule
>40 PVC in each, pour concrete, saw the PVC off flush at ground
>level, and then insert the rack's vertical members into the PVC.
>
>But what to use for the rack's vertical/horizontal members?
>
>Seems like galvanized plumbing pipe isn't all that structural,
>the threads at connection points would be rust-prone, the inside
>probably isn't galvanized, and it wouldn't be very flexible in
>terms of adding/relocating cantilevers.
>
>Wood seems like a workable fallback position - albeit subject to
>rot as water accumulates in the PVC it's inserted into (there's
>really no hope for drainage holes bc the soil is clay and shale).
>
>Some kind of galvanized square stuff? They use something like
>that for traffic signs around here, and it seems tb holding up
>pretty well.
>
>Or am I missing some solution that's simpler than the holes in
>the ground - yet minimizes the footprint?
>
>My biggest reservation is that I'll be creating a situation where
>the rack's vertical members are sitting in a pool of water that
>never goes away.
>
>Anybody have some insights?
>--
>PeteCresswell

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user

External


Since: Jan 22, 2006
Posts: 204



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Cantelever Kayak Rack? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Per Drew Dalgleish:
>How about keeping the rack you have and laying concrete patio stones
>under it so there's no grass to cut?

Insufficient space for one.


>Or just plant a couple 4 x 4
>pressure treated posts directly in the ground and build off them.

That sounds like the least-complicated approach.

What's your take on the pressure-treated posts' live expectancy
rot-wise? The kick in the head would come if they rotted just
enough to get weak enough and a wind squall blew the whole thing
over. One of the boats will be a surf ski (i.e. not all that
robust when dropped from waist height....)

My son-in-law-the-farmer just informed me that posts made out of
locust will never rot - period.

So maybe wood posts are the way to go here....
--
PeteCresswell
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Siskuwihane

External


Since: Dec 23, 2007
Posts: 4



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Cantelever Kayak Rack? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Dec 23, 4:58 pm, "(PeteCresswell)" <x....RemoveThis@y.Invalid> wrote:
> Per Drew Dalgleish:
>
> >How about keeping the rack you have and laying concrete patio stones
> >under it so there's no grass to cut?
>
> Insufficient space for one.
>
> >Or just plant a couple 4 x 4
> >pressure treated posts directly in the ground and build off them.
>
> That sounds like the least-complicated approach.
>
> What's your take on the pressure-treated posts' live expectancy
> rot-wise? The kick in the head would come if they rotted just
> enough to get weak enough and a wind squall blew the whole thing
> over. One of the boats will be a surf ski (i.e. not all that
> robust when dropped from waist height....)
>
> My son-in-law-the-farmer just informed me that posts made out of
> locust will never rot - period.
>
> So maybe wood posts are the way to go here....
> --
> PeteCresswell

You can use the metal post brackets shown here:

http://www.handymanwire.com/articles/postbracket.gif

The shelters on our local R2T's use th,m as well as the picnic
pavilions at the local park, they seem to be working out well.
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Siskuwihane

External


Since: Dec 23, 2007
Posts: 4



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Cantelever Kayak Rack? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Dec 23, 6:40 pm, Siskuwihane <Siskuwih... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 23, 4:58 pm, "(PeteCresswell)" <x... RemoveThis @y.Invalid> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Per Drew Dalgleish:
>
> > >How about keeping the rack you have and laying concrete patio stones
> > >under it so there's no grass to cut?
>
> > Insufficient space for one.
>
> > >Or just plant a couple 4 x 4
> > >pressure treated posts directly in the ground and build off them.
>
> > That sounds like the least-complicated approach.
>
> > What's your take on the pressure-treated posts' live expectancy
> > rot-wise? The kick in the head would come if they rotted just
> > enough to get weak enough and a wind squall blew the whole thing
> > over. One of the boats will be a surf ski (i.e. not all that
> > robust when dropped from waist height....)
>
> > My son-in-law-the-farmer just informed me that posts made out of
> > locust will never rot - period.
>
> > So maybe wood posts are the way to go here....
> > --
> > PeteCresswell
>
> You can use the metal post brackets shown here:
>
> http://www.handymanwire.com/articles/postbracket.gif
>
> The shelters on our local R2T's use th,m as well as the picnic
> pavilions at the local park, they seem to be working out well.

Here's the full article, it's for a deck, but it could apply to
storage rack too.

http://www.handymanwire.com/articles/decksupport.html
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Bob Noble

External


Since: Dec 25, 2006
Posts: 5



(Msg. 6) Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Cantelever Kayak Rack? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Hi Pete,
If you got rock, it's going to be hard to make a little hole, so why bother?
I'd dig about a two by two foot hole down to around two feet deep.
If you have some bigger rocks, the hole will get bigger if you can't break
them up with the digging bar, so what?
Pour about three inches of concrete in the bottom about two feet by two feet
wide.
Use some three eights inch rebar bent in an L shape. Put a couple of these
in the wet concrete so half of each extends up in the center.
Make a form out of cardboard or whatever about six inches in diameter and
put over the rebar. Fill with concrete. Put your ground pipe in first.
Fill the hole back in with your dirt and rock. This will give you a small
foot print that has a lot of lateral support for your rack.


--
Bob Noble
http://www.sonic.net/bnoble
"(PeteCresswell)" <x RemoveThis @y.Invalid> wrote in message
news:9p7tm3hi8scbvn6i1ago58s98indr2patg@4ax.com...
> Got a surf ski on order.
>
> Would like to move from this: http://tinyurl.com/2l3mve
> to an outdoor version of this: http://tinyurl.com/3d2way
>
> The idea being to minimize the footprint and make mowing the lawn
> around it easier.
>
> My first thought is to dig two post holes nestled into the line
> of forsythia in the first link, put a vertical length of schedule
> 40 PVC in each, pour concrete, saw the PVC off flush at ground
> level, and then insert the rack's vertical members into the PVC.
>
> But what to use for the rack's vertical/horizontal members?
>
> Seems like galvanized plumbing pipe isn't all that structural,
> the threads at connection points would be rust-prone, the inside
> probably isn't galvanized, and it wouldn't be very flexible in
> terms of adding/relocating cantilevers.
>
> Wood seems like a workable fallback position - albeit subject to
> rot as water accumulates in the PVC it's inserted into (there's
> really no hope for drainage holes bc the soil is clay and shale).
>
> Some kind of galvanized square stuff? They use something like
> that for traffic signs around here, and it seems tb holding up
> pretty well.
>
> Or am I missing some solution that's simpler than the holes in
> the ground - yet minimizes the footprint?
>
> My biggest reservation is that I'll be creating a situation where
> the rack's vertical members are sitting in a pool of water that
> never goes away.
>
> Anybody have some insights?
> --
> PeteCresswell
 >> Stay informed about: Cantelever Kayak Rack? 
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Drew Dalgleish

External


Since: Nov 10, 2005
Posts: 42



(Msg. 7) Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Cantelever Kayak Rack? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Most pressure treated wood comes with at least a 25 year guarantee.
Personally I've got so much faith in it I live in a house with a
pressure treated foundation.

>Per Drew Dalgleish:
>>How about keeping the rack you have and laying concrete patio stones
>>under it so there's no grass to cut?
>
>Insufficient space for one.
>
>
>>Or just plant a couple 4 x 4
>>pressure treated posts directly in the ground and build off them.
>
>That sounds like the least-complicated approach.
>
>What's your take on the pressure-treated posts' live expectancy
>rot-wise? The kick in the head would come if they rotted just
>enough to get weak enough and a wind squall blew the whole thing
>over. One of the boats will be a surf ski (i.e. not all that
>robust when dropped from waist height....)
>
>My son-in-law-the-farmer just informed me that posts made out of
>locust will never rot - period.
>
>So maybe wood posts are the way to go here....
>--
>PeteCresswell
 >> Stay informed about: Cantelever Kayak Rack? 
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Bob Gramann

External


Since: Nov 13, 2006
Posts: 7



(Msg. 8) Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Cantelever Kayak Rack? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

My canoe rack is made of two 4x6 treated posts stuck in holes in the ground
with treated 2x6 cantilevers bolted to them. The cantilevers are cut into
long triangles so there's a wide area to bolt through but they are narrow at
the end so they can be closer together and not inhibit boats underneath. I
think the racks are at least 20 years old. I've had to replace a couple of
the cantilevers, but the posts are fine. There is no need to sink the posts
in concrete. Packing the earth back in the hole supports them just fine
(after all, it will be earth around the concrete if you fill the holes with
that).

PVC pipe isn't structural and will eventually break if there's any load on
it.

Many years ago, the termites ate a treated post supporting my son's
basketball hoop. The post was replaced under warranty.

--Bob Gramann

"(PeteCresswell)" <x.TakeThisOut@y.Invalid> wrote in message
news:9p7tm3hi8scbvn6i1ago58s98indr2patg@4ax.com...
> Got a surf ski on order.
>
> Would like to move from this: http://tinyurl.com/2l3mve
> to an outdoor version of this: http://tinyurl.com/3d2way
>
> The idea being to minimize the footprint and make mowing the lawn
> around it easier.
>
> My first thought is to dig two post holes nestled into the line
> of forsythia in the first link, put a vertical length of schedule
> 40 PVC in each, pour concrete, saw the PVC off flush at ground
> level, and then insert the rack's vertical members into the PVC.
>
> But what to use for the rack's vertical/horizontal members?
>
> Seems like galvanized plumbing pipe isn't all that structural,
> the threads at connection points would be rust-prone, the inside
> probably isn't galvanized, and it wouldn't be very flexible in
> terms of adding/relocating cantilevers.
>
> Wood seems like a workable fallback position - albeit subject to
> rot as water accumulates in the PVC it's inserted into (there's
> really no hope for drainage holes bc the soil is clay and shale).
>
> Some kind of galvanized square stuff? They use something like
> that for traffic signs around here, and it seems tb holding up
> pretty well.
>
> Or am I missing some solution that's simpler than the holes in
> the ground - yet minimizes the footprint?
>
> My biggest reservation is that I'll be creating a situation where
> the rack's vertical members are sitting in a pool of water that
> never goes away.
>
> Anybody have some insights?
> --
> PeteCresswell
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user

External


Since: Jan 22, 2006
Posts: 204



(Msg. 9) Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:59 am
Post subject: Re: Cantelever Kayak Rack? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Per Bob Noble:
>Put your ground pipe in first.

The ground pipe being the one that the rack's uprights will go
into, right?
--
PeteCresswell
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user

External


Since: Jan 22, 2006
Posts: 204



(Msg. 10) Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:03 am
Post subject: Re: Cantelever Kayak Rack? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Per Bob Gramann:
>two 4x6 treated posts stuck in holes in the ground

That's good stuff: real-life data.

Any recollection of how deep the holes were?
--
PeteCresswell
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Bob Gramann

External


Since: Nov 13, 2006
Posts: 7



(Msg. 11) Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Cantelever Kayak Rack? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

About 2 feet.

"(PeteCresswell)" <x DeleteThis @y.Invalid> wrote in message
news:n732n3l05cn8dvd4070f6537qqpcakp96d@4ax.com...
> Per Bob Gramann:
>>two 4x6 treated posts stuck in holes in the ground
>
> That's good stuff: real-life data.
>
> Any recollection of how deep the holes were?
> --
> PeteCresswell
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Bob Gramann

External


Since: Nov 13, 2006
Posts: 7



(Msg. 12) Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Cantelever Kayak Rack? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Pete,

Send me a valid email offline and I'll send you a photograph.

bob at bobgramann.com

"(PeteCresswell)" <x.TakeThisOut@y.Invalid> wrote in message
news:n732n3l05cn8dvd4070f6537qqpcakp96d@4ax.com...
> Per Bob Gramann:
>>two 4x6 treated posts stuck in holes in the ground
>
> That's good stuff: real-life data.
>
> Any recollection of how deep the holes were?
> --
> PeteCresswell
 >> Stay informed about: Cantelever Kayak Rack? 
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Bob Noble

External


Since: Dec 25, 2006
Posts: 5



(Msg. 13) Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Cantelever Kayak Rack? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Yes, that's right, or any other type of post or way you want to do it.
It'll hold a wooden post well also. You can adjust the size of the upright
cement. The idea is to not make it too big to keep down the cement
requirement.
Trying to dig a small hole in rocky ground just doesn't cut it.
It's much easier to make a larger hole. Most rocks can be popped out. Much
easier than they can be cut or broken up.


--
Bob Noble
http://www.sonic.net/bnoble
"(PeteCresswell)" <x.TakeThisOut@y.Invalid> wrote in message
news:g532n39mjopk5bc7spue10ki2vkd2j0scu@4ax.com...
> Per Bob Noble:
>>Put your ground pipe in first.
>
> The ground pipe being the one that the rack's uprights will go
> into, right?
> --
> PeteCresswell
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