Double paddle in open canoe?

I've seen people on rivers using kayak paddles in canoes. I'm a yaker, but
also have 2 solo white water canoes. I HAVE tried using a double blade, but
actually found it much more rewarding to learn to properly do the canoe
paddle thing. And it was not any more difficult. But try both


"Bubba" <Bubba.RemoveThis@houston.rr.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:68lEg.2299$3l.753@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> All of my paddling experience has been with single paddles in a tandem
> canoe. In a few weeks I'll be spending quite a lot of time in a solo
canoe
> (a Prism) in touring mode. Is there any advantage in using a double
paddle?
> Disadvantage?
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Double paddle in open canoe? 

I paddle my 12 ft solo canoe with a double blade paddle, but I sit on the
floor like a kayak and the stroke routine is comfortable.
I tried the same paddle in a Coleman brand fiberglass canoe and was more
comfortable with the single blade paddle in that boat.

$.02

Bill

"Bubba" <Bubba.TakeThisOut@houston.rr.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:68lEg.2299$3l.753@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> All of my paddling experience has been with single paddles in a tandem
> canoe. In a few weeks I'll be spending quite a lot of time in a solo
> canoe (a Prism) in touring mode. Is there any advantage in using a double
> paddle? Disadvantage?
>
 >> Stay informed about: Double paddle in open canoe? 

My limited experience suggests that a kayak paddle is more efficient for
a solo paddler, especially if the solo paddler does not have a lot of
hours paddling a canoe solo with a single bladed paddle. To some
extent, it is a skill thing, and I have seen inexperienced solo paddlers
do poorly with a single blade, and improve when they switch to a kayak
paddle.

As someone else said, why not take both? You need a spare paddle
anyway, why not make one a single blade, and the other a double blade.

Richard



Bubba wrote:

> All of my paddling experience has been with single paddles in a tandem
> canoe. In a few weeks I'll be spending quite a lot of time in a solo canoe
> (a Prism) in touring mode. Is there any advantage in using a double paddle?
> Disadvantage?
>
>


--
http://www.fergusonsculpture.com
Sculptures in copper and other metals
 >> Stay informed about: Double paddle in open canoe? 

Bubba wrote:
> All of my paddling experience has been with single paddles in a tandem
> canoe. In a few weeks I'll be spending quite a lot of time in a solo canoe
> (a Prism) in touring mode. Is there any advantage in using a double paddle?
> Disadvantage?
>
>
Speaking specifically to the Prism, a kayak paddle works fine if the
wind is cooperative. If you get a long stretch of crosswind, break out
the bent-shaft and prepare to spend a lot of time on one side if need
be. Also, I much prefer paddling with a canoe paddle if the waves are
up. Too much time out of position if things go wrong, and I can fix
them much faster with a proper canoe stroke.

Marsh Jones
Ketter Canoeing
Brooklyn Park, MN
 >> Stay informed about: Double paddle in open canoe? 

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 19:27:13 GMT, Richard Ferguson
<fergusonOMITsculpture RemoveThis @omitthisatt.net> wrote:

>My limited experience suggests that a kayak paddle is more efficient for
>a solo paddler

I wonder if that's true. Consider this: Using a kayak paddle, each
stroke wastes a certain amount of energy in trying to make the boat
turn towards the opposite side.

The same is true of the single-blade canoe paddle.

There are two ways to correct the steering effect: (1) use
alternate-side strokes: left, right, left, right, etc. Or (2) Correct
the steering effect during the stroke, e.g., by using the J-stroke.

So the question most pertinant to the efficiency of double-blade
paddles vs. single-blade paddles may be: Which of the above two forms
of steering correction expents the least energy? Can anyone answer
that one?

Al D

Al D
 >> Stay informed about: Double paddle in open canoe? 

Per Al Deveron:
>I wonder if that's true. Consider this: Using a kayak paddle, each
>stroke wastes a certain amount of energy in trying to make the boat
>turn towards the opposite side.
>
>The same is true of the single-blade canoe paddle.

The wisdom that I gleaned (correctly or incorrectly...) from a surf ski mailing
list is that outrigger canoes are not competitive with surf skis because of the
single-bladed paddling technique.

I'll leave it to greater minds than mine to explain why.
--
PeteCresswell
 >> Stay informed about: Double paddle in open canoe? 

If you are a purist in a "regular canoe" you would use the j-stroke .
As a long time paddler and a new OC1 and OC 6 paddler, the j-stoke is
very efficient[if you know how to do it properly] even if you are in
the bow seat turned around (it is not good if the canoe you are in is
wide and sharply sheared where you are sitting). That also assumes that
you are paddling at 20-30 strokes per minute or less. If you are
wailing away at 50 + there is no way you can stay on one side.

On the other hand I have also used a kayak paddle in a canoe and while
it feels a little funny it's fun. Not real efficient because of the the
height so the suggestin to sit in the bottom of the canoe is a good
one. I like the suggestion of taking both kinds as long as you have a
kayak paddle that splits...



Bubba wrote:
> All of my paddling experience has been with single paddles in a tandem
> canoe. In a few weeks I'll be spending quite a lot of time in a solo canoe
> (a Prism) in touring mode. Is there any advantage in using a double paddle?
> Disadvantage?
 >> Stay informed about: Double paddle in open canoe? 

I would think that a j-stroke is very efficient, but like stated at a
moderate pace. I'm thinking that a kayak paddle may be a little better
in some situations because you should be able to get a higher stroke
rate. My friend found the kayak paddle was more efficient on steadies
than his whitewater paddle, and he's a fairly competent canoeist. I
don't know how large of a difference there is between a WW and a
touring canoe paddle.

Andrew
 >> Stay informed about: Double paddle in open canoe? 

"Bubba" <Bubba.DeleteThis@houston.rr.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:68lEg.2299$3l.753@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> All of my paddling experience has been with single paddles in a tandem
> canoe. In a few weeks I'll be spending quite a lot of time in a solo
> canoe (a Prism) in touring mode. Is there any advantage in using a double
> paddle? Disadvantage?
>

Well, there is a certain erosion of style in using a double-bladed paddle in
a canoe. Not that there is explicitly any rule stating that canoes must be
paddled with a single blade, but that creeping change is on the same road
that eventually leads to using a motor. so who's to say where the line gets
drawn? For me, I only use a single blade, solo or tandem, because I feel
cheap if I use a double. Thats the big disadvantage, and AFAIC, it outweighs
any advantages. YMMV

--riverman
 >> Stay informed about: Double paddle in open canoe? 

I disagree that using two plades leads to using a motor. Where's the
reasoning?

My argument would be that on a mixed WW trip, with canoeists and
kayakers, two blades would help to keep up with the kayakers.

riverman wrote:
> "Bubba" <Bubba DeleteThis @houston.rr.nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:68lEg.2299$3l.753@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> > All of my paddling experience has been with single paddles in a tandem
> > canoe. In a few weeks I'll be spending quite a lot of time in a solo
> > canoe (a Prism) in touring mode. Is there any advantage in using a double
> > paddle? Disadvantage?
> >
>
> Well, there is a certain erosion of style in using a double-bladed paddle in
> a canoe. Not that there is explicitly any rule stating that canoes must be
> paddled with a single blade, but that creeping change is on the same road
> that eventually leads to using a motor. so who's to say where the line gets
> drawn? For me, I only use a single blade, solo or tandem, because I feel
> cheap if I use a double. Thats the big disadvantage, and AFAIC, it outweighs
> any advantages. YMMV
>
> --riverman
 >> Stay informed about: Double paddle in open canoe? 

Andrew is right, but it takes more out of you. You can go faster in a
canoe with a double bladed paddle. It allows you expend more energy in
a shorter time. A paddler in good condition can generate about 1/20th
horse power over long distances, more in sprints. Canoes are not as
hydrodynamically efficient hulls as kayaks.


Andrew wrote:
> I disagree that using two plades leads to using a motor. Where's the
> reasoning?
>
> My argument would be that on a mixed WW trip, with canoeists and
> kayakers, two blades would help to keep up with the kayakers.
>
> riverman wrote:
> > "Bubba" <Bubba.DeleteThis@houston.rr.nospam.com> wrote in message
> > news:68lEg.2299$3l.753@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> > > All of my paddling experience has been with single paddles in a tandem
> > > canoe. In a few weeks I'll be spending quite a lot of time in a solo
> > > canoe (a Prism) in touring mode. Is there any advantage in using a double
> > > paddle? Disadvantage?
> > >
> >
> > Well, there is a certain erosion of style in using a double-bladed paddle in
> > a canoe. Not that there is explicitly any rule stating that canoes must be
> > paddled with a single blade, but that creeping change is on the same road
> > that eventually leads to using a motor. so who's to say where the line gets
> > drawn? For me, I only use a single blade, solo or tandem, because I feel
> > cheap if I use a double. Thats the big disadvantage, and AFAIC, it outweighs
> > any advantages. YMMV
> >
> > --riverman
 >> Stay informed about: Double paddle in open canoe? 

Interesting thread...Some canoes are being designed to be paddled
sitting on the bottom with a double bladed paddle (as per Bill's post).
To me, they seem to be very much like an open kayak. And I think that's
the key. Sitting low, with low sides would make a double paddle more
efficient, whereas sitting high with high sides (as in a traditional
canoe) would argue for a single bladed paddle. From Wenonah's web site,
it appears to me that the Prism may be one of the more traditional canoes.

Another observation, that might not be accurate, is that it seems to me
that double bladed paddles have less surface area per blade than do
single bladed paddles. Is it possible that each stroke sequence pushes
about the same amount of water in double and single bladed strokes?

Bubba wrote:
> All of my paddling experience has been with single paddles in a tandem
> canoe. In a few weeks I'll be spending quite a lot of time in a solo canoe
> (a Prism) in touring mode. Is there any advantage in using a double paddle?
> Disadvantage?
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Double paddle in open canoe? 

WG wrote:
> Interesting thread...Some canoes are being designed to be paddled
> sitting on the bottom with a double bladed paddle (as per Bill's post).
> To me, they seem to be very much like an open kayak. And I think that's
> the key. Sitting low, with low sides would make a double paddle more
> efficient, whereas sitting high with high sides (as in a traditional
> canoe) would argue for a single bladed paddle. From Wenonah's web site,
> it appears to me that the Prism may be one of the more traditional canoes.
>
> Another observation, that might not be accurate, is that it seems to me
> that double bladed paddles have less surface area per blade than do
> single bladed paddles. Is it possible that each stroke sequence pushes
> about the same amount of water in double and single bladed strokes?
>
> Bubba wrote:
> > All of my paddling experience has been with single paddles in a tandem
> > canoe. In a few weeks I'll be spending quite a lot of time in a solo canoe
> > (a Prism) in touring mode. Is there any advantage in using a double paddle?
> > Disadvantage?
> >
> >

I have used both single and double paddles in my Folbot, which is more
of a tandem, decked canoe, that you sit in like a kayak. The boat is 35
in beam, so is very stable on flat water, and does not require alot of
bracing stokes.

I set in the rear seat, where it is not quite as wide, and you can
easily use a single paddle. However even then the standard double is
quite long, I think like 255, and I use a long single.

I heard that the special forces use the single to reduce the effect of
wind on a double paddle, and I have definitely seen a difference.

The main problem with the single, is that as you shift sides your
paddle drips into the boat, and onto the front paddler, for which I
have been chewed out a few times.

Otherwise both seem to work just fine, at least on flat water lakes
where I am usually sailing, and just need to give a couple strokes to
complete a tack (turn into the wind) HYY
 >> Stay informed about: Double paddle in open canoe?