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External
Since: Sep 04, 2003
Posts: 45
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:36 pm
Post subject: Engine dwell question
Archived from groups: can>rec>boating (more info?)
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Here's an interesting one.
I have twin 4.3 liter, V6, 1989, OMC King cobra I/O's. I just recently
replaced the ignition points with an electronic module deal I got
through NAPA. The first conversion went fine, the resulting dwell angle
is 30 degrees. The engine manual recommends a dwell of 38-42. The dwell
is not adjustable with the kits. The second one did not go well as the
part that went on the distributor shaft was missing some magnets and the
kit had to be returned. It took months to get a replacement kit and the
new one has a completely different appearance to it. I did the
conversion and the dwell on this engine is 44 degrees. The timing and
idle on both engines have been adjusted to spec.
Both engines seem to run fine, but is the dwell of the first one too far
off what the spec should be? At what point is the spark going to be
seriously weakened as a result of the dwell angle? Should I insist on an
exchange of the first kit?
Any thoughts?
Regards,
Kevin |
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External
Since: Dec 12, 2007
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Engine dwell question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Kevin & Debbie wrote:
> Both engines seem to run fine, but is the dwell of the first one too far
> off what the spec should be? At what point is the spark going to be
> seriously weakened as a result of the dwell angle? Should I insist on an
> exchange of the first kit?
I think you'll be OK on the dwell, but I'm interested in knowing if the
shift interrupt system is now working. Is your unit hard to shift now?
--
Regards,
Dave Brown
Brown's Marina Ltd
http://brownsmarina.com/ |
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External
Since: Sep 04, 2003
Posts: 45
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Engine dwell question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Hi Dave.
The starboard engine is at 30, the port at 44. The starboard shifter was
replaced 5 years ago and has always been harder to put back to neutral
so I don't notice any real difference. My marina is a Merc dealer and
not very good with the OMC stuff. When the drive is cold (i.e. hasn't
been run) it tends to clatter when putting it in forward so you have to
be very decisive with it. I had them try to adjust it last year and they
couldn't improve it. The port one, I believe, is a little harder to go
to neutral. When I'm approaching the dock I always check the shifters in
any event. I believe the OMC's are much harder to shift if the idle is
too high, so I'm around the 600 rpm mark in forward. Bear in mind I have
over 1300 hours on the engines/outdrives.
What would be the reason for the ESA not working with respect to the dwell?
Thanks for the response, I appreciate your input.
Regards,
Kevin
Dave Brown wrote:
> I think you'll be OK on the dwell, but I'm interested in knowing if the
> shift interrupt system is now working. Is your unit hard to shift now?
> >> Stay informed about: Engine dwell question |
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External
Since: Dec 12, 2007
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:08 am
Post subject: Re: Engine dwell question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Kevin & Debbie wrote:
> What would be the reason for the ESA not working with respect to the dwell?
> Thanks for the response, I appreciate your input.
After market electronic ignitions I have seen are not compatible with
the OEM shift assist module (unrelated to dwell). OMC's system differs
from Merc in that it cancels only half of the cylinders to lower RPM and
shift effort (whereas Merc kills them all). This means that the
electronic ignition system has to be designed to work with the ESA module.
To test to see if your ESA is working, simply manually operate the
switch attached to the roller arm on the shift bracket. You should hear
your RPM noticeably drop and the engine will begin to shake. If it
doesn't, shifting out of gear will be exceptionally difficult. A
properly set up OMC Cobra shift is effortless on any model in any year
when properly set up.
--
Regards,
Dave Brown
Brown's Marina Ltd
http://brownsmarina.com/ >> Stay informed about: Engine dwell question |
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External
Since: Sep 04, 2003
Posts: 45
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Engine dwell question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Hi Dave,
This electronic kit (from NAPA) is just a round plastic disk with 6
small magnets embedded in it that pushes on to the distributor shaft
below the existing rotor. You remove the breaker plate completely and
screw down a replacement that has a pickup module on it that senses the
magnets passing by and connects to the existing ignition coil. You still
use the existing rotor, cap and coil.
I wish you were closer to Wiarton and I would have you set up my shifts.
Is there a good procedure around that a DIYer could follow to set them
up and lube them?
I know the ESA works as I replaced one of the micro switches last year,
the actuator pin was worn off.
Thanks again.
Regards,
Kevin
Dave Brown wrote:
> Kevin & Debbie wrote:
>
>> What would be the reason for the ESA not working with respect to the
>> dwell?
>> Thanks for the response, I appreciate your input.
>
> After market electronic ignitions I have seen are not compatible with
> the OEM shift assist module (unrelated to dwell). OMC's system differs
> from Merc in that it cancels only half of the cylinders to lower RPM and
> shift effort (whereas Merc kills them all). This means that the
> electronic ignition system has to be designed to work with the ESA module.
>
> To test to see if your ESA is working, simply manually operate the
> switch attached to the roller arm on the shift bracket. You should hear
> your RPM noticeably drop and the engine will begin to shake. If it
> doesn't, shifting out of gear will be exceptionally difficult. A
> properly set up OMC Cobra shift is effortless on any model in any year
> when properly set up.
>
>
> >> Stay informed about: Engine dwell question |
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External
Since: Sep 04, 2003
Posts: 45
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Engine dwell question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Hi Dave,
You got me thinking about the shifting. So, I was able to re-find Stuart
Hastings postings about adjusting the shifter. I'll have to study it a
bunch more, he did a lot of work on it.
http://www.hastings.org/~stuart/cobra/
He mentions the same ignitor kit I have installed and the diode fix
required. NAPA just rebrands it, the instructions are the same.
I'll have to make up a couple of diode fixes and try them in a couple
of weeks.
Thanks Dave, you've been a big help.
Regard,
Kevin
Dave Brown wrote:
> Kevin & Debbie wrote:
>
>> What would be the reason for the ESA not working with respect to the
>> dwell?
>> Thanks for the response, I appreciate your input.
>
> After market electronic ignitions I have seen are not compatible with
> the OEM shift assist module (unrelated to dwell). OMC's system differs
> from Merc in that it cancels only half of the cylinders to lower RPM and
> shift effort (whereas Merc kills them all). This means that the
> electronic ignition system has to be designed to work with the ESA module.
>
> To test to see if your ESA is working, simply manually operate the
> switch attached to the roller arm on the shift bracket. You should hear
> your RPM noticeably drop and the engine will begin to shake. If it
> doesn't, shifting out of gear will be exceptionally difficult. A
> properly set up OMC Cobra shift is effortless on any model in any year
> when properly set up.
>
>
> >> Stay informed about: Engine dwell question |
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External
Since: Dec 12, 2007
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Engine dwell question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Kevin & Debbie wrote:
> You got me thinking about the shifting. So, I was able to re-find Stuart
> Hastings postings about adjusting the shifter. I'll have to study it a
> bunch more, he did a lot of work on it.
He and I talked a lot back then.
It just occurred to me you're probably still running the original ESA
which only dropped RPM by 100. The newer version drops it almost in half
and is a HUGE improvement if shifting effort as a result.
The part number on your ESA should be 987740 if it's the newest one. If
not, I recommend you invest it it - you'll wonder how you did without it.
--
Regards,
Dave Brown
Brown's Marina Ltd
http://brownsmarina.com/ >> Stay informed about: Engine dwell question |
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External
Since: Dec 12, 2007
Posts: 11
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Engine dwell question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Kevin & Debbie wrote:
> This electronic kit (from NAPA) is just a round plastic disk with 6
> small magnets embedded in it that pushes on to the distributor shaft
Yes, the original Perkotronics design. I am not fond of the reliability
of this product at all.
While expensive, the OEM (Prestolite/OMC) conversion kit includes the
latest ESA module, a superior ignition module, and a design that allows
the coil to operate at a full 14 volts (instead of the 9v on the
original resisted design). The result is immediately noticeable after
the install. Higher, cleaner idle, 100-200 increase in top RPM, and NO
engine misfire when operating the trim at WOT (A common problem on the
original distributor).
I have converted every single Cobra in my care and my customers were
ecstatic with the results.
Happy to provide a part number if you'd like to purchase from your local
dealer.
--
Regards,
Dave Brown
Brown's Marina Ltd
http://brownsmarina.com/ >> Stay informed about: Engine dwell question |
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External
Since: Sep 04, 2003
Posts: 45
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Engine dwell question [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Hi Dave
Now I'm worried about the reliability. What were the issues? I keep the
old points and tune-up equipment on board in any event. I had a set of
points last year that were grounding out on the pivot and that's when I
decided to get away from them. I'm not really concerned about the higher
RPM or the misfire (was that from the points floating?)as I had the
engines at WOT for about 45 seconds, 6 years ago, 3500 is pretty much
the max, even when coming out of the hole.
Having said that the part number would be handy so I could price it here
in Waterloo.
I'll check the ESA module next time I'm up at the boat. What is an
approximate cost of one of those? If I activate it and the RPM drops
more than 100 does that mean it's the correct one?
Thanks, yet again.
Regards,
Kevin
Dave Brown wrote:
> Kevin & Debbie wrote:
>
>> This electronic kit (from NAPA) is just a round plastic disk with 6
>> small magnets embedded in it that pushes on to the distributor shaft
>
> Yes, the original Perkotronics design. I am not fond of the reliability
> of this product at all.
>
> While expensive, the OEM (Prestolite/OMC) conversion kit includes the
> latest ESA module, a superior ignition module, and a design that allows
> the coil to operate at a full 14 volts (instead of the 9v on the
> original resisted design). The result is immediately noticeable after
> the install. Higher, cleaner idle, 100-200 increase in top RPM, and NO
> engine misfire when operating the trim at WOT (A common problem on the
> original distributor).
>
> I have converted every single Cobra in my care and my customers were
> ecstatic with the results.
>
> Happy to provide a part number if you'd like to purchase from your local
> dealer.
> >> Stay informed about: Engine dwell question |
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