Kayak or Canoe

"Bob " <baredawg RemoveThis @bikerider.com> wrote in message
news:145355bfced9344cb8b0c2bb6044d12a.85315@mygate.mailgate.org...
 > My wife (5 and I (61) live in Florida near the ocean and all of the
 > other water in the State. We bicycle a lot so we are reasonably fit.
 > We are considering getting into the water a little with a canoe or
 > kayak. We don't anticipate any ocean paddling but would like to explore
 > some of the saltwater inlets so near us. We would probably also do some
 > fishing. Although most of our activity would be on gentle waters we
 > might encounter some rough waters near the ocean. Our question is
 > several parts. Should we get a canoe or two one-person kayaks or one
 > two-person kayak?

Personally, I'd use a canoe for inland waters (Everglades?), but for all
around use in warm water, I'd get a pair of sit-on-tops. They're usable on
flat water, and they're comfortable in big swells. Self rescue in normal
weather is a trivial matter if you're in reasonable physical shape, and if
there are two boats and you use your head, you can do some pretty exposed
stuff. If you don't get too serious about it, they're fun to surf with too.

Advice is usually worth what you pay for it.

Fred Klingener<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Kayak or Canoe 

 > "Bob " <baredawg RemoveThis @bikerider.com> wrote in message
 > news:145355bfced9344cb8b0c2bb6044d12a.85315@mygate.mailgate.org...
 >
  >>My wife (5 and I (61) live in Florida near the ocean and all of the
  >>other water in the State. We bicycle a lot so we are reasonably fit.
  >>We are considering getting into the water a little with a canoe or
  >>kayak. We don't anticipate any ocean paddling but would like to explore
  >>some of the saltwater inlets so near us. We would probably also do some
  >>fishing. Although most of our activity would be on gentle waters we
  >>might encounter some rough waters near the ocean. Our question is
  >>several parts. Should we get a canoe or two one-person kayaks or one
  >>two-person kayak?
 >

First suggestions that comes to mind is a kayak. IMO, a better ride,
more efficient and better able to handle occasional rough water. As far
as singles or tandems... you say ride bikes. Would you (meaning both)
be happy with a tandem bike? If so, then a tandem would (probably) be
great. If you think you might be going alone there are boats made with
sliding seats to accomodate solo or if you want a lighter boat for solo
and don't think you would be comfortable working together a pair of
singles would be better.

Canoes are easy to put a motor bracket on but if you both bike, you are
probably happier with the workout.

Ed

(PS: my wife and I have a Necky Gannet II, a tandem that we really like.)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Kayak or Canoe 

"Bob " <baredawg DeleteThis @bikerider.com> wrote:

 > My wife (5 and I (61) live in Florida near the ocean and all of the
 > other water in the State. We bicycle a lot so we are reasonably fit.
 > We are considering getting into the water a little with a canoe or
 > kayak. We don't anticipate any ocean paddling but would like to
 > explore some of the saltwater inlets so near us. We would probably
 > also do some fishing. Although most of our activity would be on
 > gentle waters we might encounter some rough waters near the ocean.
 > Our question is several parts. Should we get a canoe or two
 > one-person kayaks or one two-person kayak? Should we consider
 > inflatables and maybe a suggestion as to which one? Any help would be
 > appreciated. I posted to outdoors.rec, got several supplies, but was
 > advised to check this newsgroup.
 > Thanks.Bob
 >

Hi Bob,

I’m new to this news group and have been looking into kayaking for the
past couple weeks, out here in Oregon. Regarding fishing from a kayak,
there is a good book I came across called “Kayakfishing: The
Revolution,” by Ken Daubert. He has a very detailed chapter on choosing
a kayak. Most books I’ve seen don’t want to commit on recommending
makes and models. Ken does though. At the end of the chapter he has a
section “Kayak Model Recommendations” where he mentions the makes and
models that several of his friends use based on their needs, and that
are often recommended. It gives you some models to think about anyway.

Many canoe and kayak stores have demo days where they have many of their
models on the water for you to try out. Some may have their store
located on the water front and may have very reasonable hourly rental
rates so that you can try various models. I’ve got a store an hour from
my house, for example, that is located on a lake front, and rents many
of their kayak models for US $7/hr ($8/hr for canoes and tandem kayaks),
7 days a week. Many of them offer classes also.

I have no experience with kayaks, but from book knowledge:

- Inflatables don’t move very well on stagnant water. They are better
in rivers and streams where the current caries them along.

- Look at open cock pit sit-in kayaks and sit-on-top kayaks.
Sit-on-tops are popular in warm water and where you are willing to trade
off a little loss in speed, distance, and dry ride, for gain in comfort
and ease of getting in and out.

- Canoes don’t track very well, are tippy (unless you kneel on the
floor), are heavy, and don’t paddle into the wind very well. (I do have
experience with canoes and can attest to all this.)



Here’s some web sites for reference.

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.sit-on-topkayaking.com" target="_blank">http://www.sit-on-topkayaking.com</a>

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/fishing/article/0,13199,230658," target="_blank">http://www.fieldandstream.com/fieldstream/fishing/article/0,13199,230658,</a>
00.html

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.paddlermagazine.com/" target="_blank">http://www.paddlermagazine.com/</a>

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.paddlermagazine.com/issues/2002_4/article_194.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.paddlermagazine.com/issues/2002_4/article_194.shtml</a>

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.cdkayak.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cdkayak.com/</a>

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.cobrakayaks.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cobrakayaks.com/</a>

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.heritagekayaks.com/kayaks.html" target="_blank">http://www.heritagekayaks.com/kayaks.html</a>

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.oceankayak.com/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.oceankayak.com/index.html</a>

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.perceptionkayaks.com/products/boats/index.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.perceptionkayaks.com/products/boats/index.shtml</a>

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.wildernesssystems.com/" target="_blank">http://www.wildernesssystems.com/</a>

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.necky.com/" target="_blank">http://www.necky.com/</a>

Good luck on your adventure,

--
Paul S.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Kayak or Canoe 

You should consider whether you want to share a boat or have separate
boats. The nature of your bike riding might provide an indication. How
would you fell about sharing a tandem bike?

Canoes and other open boats are more versatile, for example you can carry
a wider variety of cargo in an open boat, and if you want to take a rest
you can stretch out in an open boat. The closed boats, ie kayaks, are
longer and faster for the same boat weight. I find boat wieght an
important factor for lifting on and off the roof of the car and carrying
around. Two people can life a canoe okay but if you intend to go anywhere
alone you have to consider boat weight. I paddle solo day trips and like
to keep the weight of the boat under 50 lbs (I make my own lightweight
plywood boats). I have two boats under 30 lbs and use them most.

"Bob " (baredawg@bikerider.com) writes:
 > My wife (5 and I (61) live in Florida near the ocean and all of the
 > other water in the State. We bicycle a lot so we are reasonably fit.
 > We are considering getting into the water a little with a canoe or
 > kayak. We don't anticipate any ocean paddling but would like to explore
 > some of the saltwater inlets so near us. We would probably also do some
 > fishing. Although most of our activity would be on gentle waters we
 > might encounter some rough waters near the ocean. Our question is
 > several parts. Should we get a canoe or two one-person kayaks or one
 > two-person kayak? Should we consider inflatables and maybe a suggestion
 > as to which one? Any help would be appreciated. I posted to
 > outdoors.rec, got several supplies, but was advised to check this
 > newsgroup.
 > Thanks.Bob
 >
 >
 > --
<font color=purple> > Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.Mailgate.ORG</font" target="_blank">http://www.Mailgate.ORG</font</a>>


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 >> Stay informed about: Kayak or Canoe 

In article <Xns93A4EAE9510EFpstivers.RemoveThis@204.127.199.17>, Paul Stivers
<pstivers3NOSPAM.RemoveThis@attbi.com> writes:

 >- Inflatables don’t move very well on stagnant water. They are better
 >in rivers and streams where the current caries them along.

Don't count out the inflatables. Several manufacturers make models designed for

touring that are at least as fast and track as well a most of the sit on tops
available.
They would also be lighter and at the end of the day, you roll it up and stuff
it in the
truck of your Escort.

Try that with a tandem sit on top.

Check out <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.theboatpeople.com" target="_blank">www.theboatpeople.com</a> for info about touring style inflatables.



SYOTR
Larry C.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Kayak or Canoe 

Two single craft for sure! Much more freedom and fun....they don't call tandem
craft "divorce boats" for nothing.
 >> Stay informed about: Kayak or Canoe 

Hmmm... I've said it before, I'll say it again, if you can't get along
with your "other" in a kayak, there are probably bigger problems. My
wife and I love ours.

Ed

GripMGryn wrote:
 > Two single craft for sure! Much more freedom and fun....they don't call tandem
 > craft "divorce boats" for nothing.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Kayak or Canoe 

Good questions, no single answer. but consider... Two kayaks probably weigh
more than a canoe. If one of you tires, the other can't paddle the other
back to the car if you have kayaks. Fishing works out of either, but
better from a canoe. A canoe is rather stable, esp if loaded with gear.
However if a capsise does happen, ( rare in calm waters, a canoe makes you
both swim.
 >> Stay informed about: Kayak or Canoe 

Ed Edelenbos wrote:
 >
 > Hmmm... I've said it before, I'll say it again, if you can't get along
 > with your "other" in a kayak, there are probably bigger problems.
 > My wife and I love ours.

Ed, you're definately not the standard. Quite a bunch of people who
obviously spend years living together happily can't paddle more than a
few strokes before getting mad at each other. That doesn't have to say
much about how they get along outside of a kayak, but driving a car with
two people steering or a boat with two people coordinating is a
completely different story.

Wilko (occasional tandem whitewater kayaker)

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko.DeleteThis@dse.nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://wilko.webzone.ru/" target="_blank">http://wilko.webzone.ru/</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Kayak or Canoe 

Wilko wrote:
 > Ed Edelenbos wrote:
 >
  >>Hmmm... I've said it before, I'll say it again, if you can't get along
  >>with your "other" in a kayak, there are probably bigger problems.
  >>My wife and I love ours.
 >
 >
 > Ed, you're definately not the standard. Quite a bunch of people who
 > obviously spend years living together happily can't paddle more than a
 > few strokes before getting mad at each other. That doesn't have to say
 > much about how they get along outside of a kayak, but driving a car with
 > two people steering or a boat with two people coordinating is a
 > completely different story.
 >
 > Wilko (occasional tandem whitewater kayaker)
 >

When you have tried a car with 2 people steering, do you use 2 steering
wheels, or sit on each others lap?

Or 2 people steering a boat, are there 2 tillers?

Oh, you've never done that. You decide who is driving before you get in
the car. The same works in a kayak. Of course it means you have to
TALK to each other. It takes a little practice (like anything you do
with someone else). You need to decide before you set out who is
captain and who is crew. But it works fine... if you get along with
your other (be it wife, paddling partner, kid, whoever.)

Oh, have a nice day.

Ed<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Kayak or Canoe 

Ed Edelenbos (eded@speakeasy.net) writes:

 > When you have tried a car with 2 people steering, do you use 2 steering
 > wheels, or sit on each others lap?

one steers. the other gives directions.


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 >> Stay informed about: Kayak or Canoe 

William R. Watt wrote:
 > Ed Edelenbos (eded@speakeasy.net) writes:
 >
 >
  >>When you have tried a car with 2 people steering, do you use 2 steering
  >>wheels, or sit on each others lap?
 >
 >
 > one steers. the other gives directions.
 >


Was that you in my back seat? (grin)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Kayak or Canoe 

Ed Edelenbos wrote:
 >
 > Wilko wrote:
  > > Ed, you're definately not the standard. Quite a bunch of people who
  > > obviously spend years living together happily can't paddle more than a
  > > few strokes before getting mad at each other. That doesn't have to say
  > > much about how they get along outside of a kayak, but driving a car with
  > > two people steering or a boat with two people coordinating is a
  > > completely different story.
  > >
  > > Wilko (occasional tandem whitewater kayaker)
  > >
 >
 > When you have tried a car with 2 people steering, do you use 2 > steering wheels, or sit on each others lap?
 >
 > Or 2 people steering a boat, are there 2 tillers?

I think that you're missing the point I was trying to make.

My point is that some people just don't make good tandem partners, no
matter how succesful their love-based relationship is, how well they
seem to coordinate and communicate. The friction and frustration caused
by trying to paddle together is something else than what most people
experience in their everyday relationships.

I'm not some newbie who doesn't have a clue what tandem boating is. I've
run quite a bunch of class IV rivers in my TopoDuo, both with other
experienced paddlers but also with newbies or less experienced paddlers.
On top of that I've lent my tandem kayak to others, and paddled with
tandem boaters a couple of times. The differences I ran into between the
way tandem teams behave were staggering.

Some people get into a fight, others seem to have been made to work
together in their boat. Besides the communication and cooperation skills
needed, people also have to adjust mentally to not being in control all
on their own (often the case with boaters who normally only paddle their
own boat alone), and overcoming their (irrational) fear of (partially)
depending on someone else.


--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko.RemoveThis@dse.nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://wilko.webzone.ru/" target="_blank">http://wilko.webzone.ru/</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Kayak or Canoe