Newbie to paddling

elyob wrote:

 > I've got a little idea brewing where I take a canoe/kayak up the Thames and
 > camp out etc etc.
 >
 > That's as far as I've got. I investigated a school recently and may start
 > training on their equipment soon. However, am unsure whether to go for canoe
 > or kayak. I won't be carrying tons of stuff, but will still have a weeks
 > worth or so. Maybe as much as a tent, sleeping bag and clothes etc ..
 >
 > Also, I see some fibre glass canoes going pretty cheaply, but haven't got
 > anywhere to store one at the moment. So, should I consider renting one, or
 > finding a neighbour with a garden I can hide it in when not in use?
 >
 > What sort of kayak/canoe should I look at for this type of beginners tour?
 > I've used one previously that was in a friends garden, but it got really
 > uncomfortable on my back from leaning back on the entrance edge. Is this
 > because it may have been too small for me? I'm 6ft, 16st.
 >
 > What sort of distance would you expect to cover per day?
 >
 > Thanks for any advice

Read "Three Men in a Boat" by Jerome K. Jerome and copy the journey.
An open canoe would be good for camping, especially if you have a
friend. Even without, you should cover twenty miles in a day as
a beginner.

--
Eiron.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie to paddling 

"elyob" <newsprofile RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:krG%d.2887$Ab.874@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
 > I've got a little idea brewing where I take a canoe/kayak up the
Thames and
 > camp out etc etc.
 >
 > That's as far as I've got. I investigated a school recently and may
start
 > training on their equipment soon. However, am unsure whether to go for
canoe
 > or kayak. I won't be carrying tons of stuff, but will still have a
weeks
 > worth or so. Maybe as much as a tent, sleeping bag and clothes etc ..
 >
 > Also, I see some fibre glass canoes going pretty cheaply, but haven't
got
 > anywhere to store one at the moment. So, should I consider renting
one, or
 > finding a neighbour with a garden I can hide it in when not in use?
 >
 > What sort of kayak/canoe should I look at for this type of beginners
tour?
 > I've used one previously that was in a friends garden, but it got
really
 > uncomfortable on my back from leaning back on the entrance edge. Is
this
 > because it may have been too small for me? I'm 6ft, 16st.
 >
 > What sort of distance would you expect to cover per day?
 >
 > Thanks for any advice
 >
 > Nick

Apologies for sending email instead of posting. Finger trouble again
don't you know?

1st:
Down stream is always easier to paddle than up stream. Go with the flow.
Long skinny boats are quicker and easier to paddle, but only if you can
stay upright in them. If you tend to fall out regularly they are slower
than wide stable boats.
Fibre glass is lighter to carry than plastic (you need to carry your
boat around the locks), and usually smoother so slips through the water
easier. It is also easier to damage through impacts so is not so good
for rough water. Most canoe clubs will store your canoe for you. Keep
your kit to a minimum. It slows you down and you have to cart it around
the locks. Heavy kit will tire you out. If you can organise a support
crew to carry your overnight gear, you can meet them at preplanned
locations and you can then simply carry enough supplies to last you for
your days paddling. Drinks are the most important cargo. <hiccup>

2nd:
The Devises to Westminster Canoe Race takes place over Easter if you
want to see how other people do it.

3rd:
Don't forget about the weirs. Never forget about the weirs!
Dr Bennett will be along in a moment to tell you all about the weirs.
If he can be found that is, as he isn't responding much at the moment.
If he doesn't show up, try googling for Thames weirs on this ng, or the
rowing newsgroup.
Some of us enjoy a good row.
You might find the archives interesting if you ignore the mud slinging.
Dr. Bennett and mudslinging are never very far apart.
Shame really as he is such a helpful and knowledgeable old faXXXX chap.


David Kemper
Not a fan of slow coaches.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie to paddling 

"David Kemper" <david.kemper RemoveThis @ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3a8vqmF64pf1sU1@individual.net...

 > Apologies for sending email instead of posting. Finger trouble again
 > don't you know?
 >

No worries, it's a hardly checked gmail account. I look in it once a month
or so.

 > 1st:
 > Down stream is always easier to paddle than up stream. Go with the flow.
 > Long skinny boats are quicker and easier to paddle, but only if you can
 > stay upright in them. If you tend to fall out regularly they are slower
 > than wide stable boats.
 > Fibre glass is lighter to carry than plastic (you need to carry your
 > boat around the locks), and usually smoother so slips through the water
 > easier. It is also easier to damage through impacts so is not so good
 > for rough water. Most canoe clubs will store your canoe for you. Keep
 > your kit to a minimum. It slows you down and you have to cart it around
 > the locks. Heavy kit will tire you out. If you can organise a support
 > crew to carry your overnight gear, you can meet them at preplanned
 > locations and you can then simply carry enough supplies to last you for
 > your days paddling. Drinks are the most important cargo. <hiccup>
 >

All seems reasonable advice. The reason I'll be going up the Thames, is that
I'll be coming back down again. However if I can blag a car to get me to the
start then I'll do something more like the Devizes -> Westminster but over a
few days. (Once I've got my skills up. I'm pretty fit as a gym user and
heavy cyclist, but suspect my shoulders will ache the first few months!)

 > 2nd:
 > The Devises to Westminster Canoe Race takes place over Easter if you
 > want to see how other people do it.
 >

I see the record was something like 15 hours, and am wondering when they are
likely to come through the Kingston area. I'm just looking at the
dwrace.org.uk site and see there is also a 4 day race for senior singles.
That looks like something I could aim to do next year!
They don't mention the sorts of numbers involved, but I guess this is a big
event on the calendar. Certainly looks like fun! I'm surprised it's not
later in the year to get more reliable weather.

 > 3rd:
 > Don't forget about the weirs. Never forget about the weirs!
 > Dr Bennett will be along in a moment to tell you all about the weirs.
 > If he can be found that is, as he isn't responding much at the moment.
 > If he doesn't show up, try googling for Thames weirs on this ng, or the
 > rowing newsgroup.
 > Some of us enjoy a good row.
 > You might find the archives interesting if you ignore the mud slinging.
 > Dr. Bennett and mudslinging are never very far apart.
 > Shame really as he is such a helpful and knowledgeable old faXXXX chap.
 >
 >

I'll certainly read up about the weirs! As mentioned, I'm in the Kingston
area, and will get training on starting. I'm sure they'll mention these
things, but I'll ask too!

Thanks to all so far, am reading all the replies avidly.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Eiron" <e1ron RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3a8uq6F69jt8uU1@individual.net...
 > elyob wrote:
 >
  >> I've got a little idea brewing where I take a canoe/kayak up the Thames
  >> and camp out etc etc.
  >>
  >> That's as far as I've got. I investigated a school recently and may start
  >> training on their equipment soon. However, am unsure whether to go for
  >> canoe or kayak. I won't be carrying tons of stuff, but will still have a
  >> weeks worth or so. Maybe as much as a tent, sleeping bag and clothes etc
  >> ..
  >>
  >> Also, I see some fibre glass canoes going pretty cheaply, but haven't got
  >> anywhere to store one at the moment. So, should I consider renting one,
  >> or finding a neighbour with a garden I can hide it in when not in use?
  >>
  >> What sort of kayak/canoe should I look at for this type of beginners
  >> tour? I've used one previously that was in a friends garden, but it got
  >> really uncomfortable on my back from leaning back on the entrance edge.
  >> Is this because it may have been too small for me? I'm 6ft, 16st.
  >>
  >> What sort of distance would you expect to cover per day?
  >>
  >> Thanks for any advice
 >
 > Read "Three Men in a Boat" by Jerome K. Jerome and copy the journey.
 > An open canoe would be good for camping, especially if you have a
 > friend. Even without, you should cover twenty miles in a day as
 > a beginner.

Thanks, got a copy off the internet. Will read soon!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie to paddling 

"Bill Oldroyd" <bill.RemoveThis@oldieshome.org.uk> wrote in message
news:423f3f38$0$10950$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
 > elyob wrote:
  >> I've got a little idea brewing where I take a canoe/kayak up the Thames
  >> and camp out etc etc.
 >
 > For a start I would try canoeing down the Thames it's a lot easier.
 >

I'm going to join a local club and then meet people who can give advice and
find people who don't mind me tagging along. I don't have a car at the
moment, so will be looking at same start/finish points for practice.
Hopefully will find others who can help out for bigger trips.

  >> That's as far as I've got. I investigated a school recently and may start
  >> training on their equipment soon. However, am unsure whether to go for
  >> canoe or kayak. I won't be carrying tons of stuff, but will still have a
  >> weeks worth or so. Maybe as much as a tent, sleeping bag and clothes etc
  >> ..
 >
 > I would go for a kayak, it's also easier.

Okay! Sounds good! It also has a place to stash the beer?

 >
  >> Also, I see some fibre glass canoes going pretty cheaply, but haven't got
  >> anywhere to store one at the moment. So, should I consider renting one,
  >> or finding a neighbour with a garden I can hide it in when not in use?
 >
 > Hide it ina neighbour's garden.

I think that's probably the best advice. How much do Kayaks cost, and where
can I read more about new and secondhand ones?

 >
  >> What sort of kayak/canoe should I look at for this type of beginners
  >> tour? I've used one previously that was in a friends garden, but it got
  >> really uncomfortable on my back from leaning back on the entrance edge.
  >> Is this because it may have been too small for me? I'm 6ft, 16st.
 >
 > No, it's probably because you have the wrong paddling technique and lack
 > of stamina so you are lying back in your seat when paddling. Sit up when
 > paddling. It will probably be difficult to start with, but by the time you
 > have paddled down the Thames, you will not think twice about it.
 >
 > Buy a long, thin canoe that initially feels a bit unstable.
 >
  >> What sort of distance would you expect to cover per day?
 >
 > How many pubs do you intend to call at . Depends on how much sight
 > seeing you want to do. 20 miles a day might be a reasonable target - This
 > probably equates to about 5 or 6 hours a day paddling. In order to pass
 > through the locks quickly I recommend going to the front of the queue of
 > boats and fitting into the odd space left by the cruisers etc.. Hold on to
 > a chain. Oh yes, nearly forgot, you need a license.
 >

I did pop through a locks at Shepperton when I borrowed one for an hour or
two last year. I held on to the chains as you say.

  >> Thanks for any advice
 >
 > Have fun.
 >
 > Bill

I will. I think I'll be out this weekend <!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"elyob" <newsprofile RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:qiJ%d.3033$Ab.2568@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
 >
 > "Bill Oldroyd" <bill RemoveThis @oldieshome.org.uk> wrote in message
 > news:423f3f38$0$10950$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
  > > How many pubs do you intend to call at . Depends on how much
sight
  > > seeing you want to do. 20 miles a day might be a reasonable target -
This
  > > probably equates to about 5 or 6 hours a day paddling. In order to
pass
  > > through the locks quickly I recommend going to the front of the
queue of
  > > boats and fitting into the odd space left by the cruisers etc.. Hold
on to
  > > a chain. Oh yes, nearly forgot, you need a license.
  > >
 >
 > I did pop through a locks at Shepperton when I borrowed one for an
hour or
 > two last year. I held on to the chains as you say.
 >
You used the locks like any other boat would? I didn't know this was
permitted.
I've only ever been involved with racing on the Thames and the locks are
always portaged. The locks are provided with paths which are signposted
for portaging craft. On British Waterways your canal licence prohibits
the use of locks although I believe you can purchase a more expensive
version which does allow use of locks. I don't remember seeing any
paddler actually using locks on the canal. IMHO it is far easier and
vastly quicker to get out and have a little walk around the lock.

David Kemper
Not a fan of hanging around in chains.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Newbie to paddling 

"David Kemper" <david.kemper.DeleteThis@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3aa37cF6aiecqU1@individual.net...
 >
 > "elyob" <newsprofile.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
 > news:qiJ%d.3033$Ab.2568@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
  >>
  >> "Bill Oldroyd" <bill.DeleteThis@oldieshome.org.uk> wrote in message
  >> news:423f3f38$0$10950$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
   >> > How many pubs do you intend to call at . Depends on how much
 > sight
   >> > seeing you want to do. 20 miles a day might be a reasonable target -
 > This
   >> > probably equates to about 5 or 6 hours a day paddling. In order to
 > pass
   >> > through the locks quickly I recommend going to the front of the
 > queue of
   >> > boats and fitting into the odd space left by the cruisers etc.. Hold
 > on to
   >> > a chain. Oh yes, nearly forgot, you need a license.
   >> >
  >>
  >> I did pop through a locks at Shepperton when I borrowed one for an
 > hour or
  >> two last year. I held on to the chains as you say.
  >>
 > You used the locks like any other boat would? I didn't know this was
 > permitted.
 > I've only ever been involved with racing on the Thames and the locks are
 > always portaged. The locks are provided with paths which are signposted
 > for portaging craft. On British Waterways your canal licence prohibits
 > the use of locks although I believe you can purchase a more expensive
 > version which does allow use of locks. I don't remember seeing any
 > paddler actually using locks on the canal. IMHO it is far easier and
 > vastly quicker to get out and have a little walk around the lock.
 >

I dunno, I just borrowed a canoe out of a friends back garden and took a
spin. Thought I'd give it a go, however other paddlers got out and carried.
Yes, vastly quicker to do this, but I thought I wanted to do it just once.
<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"elyob" <newsprofile DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:krG%d.2887$Ab.874@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
 > I've got a little idea brewing where I take a canoe/kayak up the Thames
and
 > camp out etc etc.
 >
 > That's as far as I've got. I investigated a school recently and may start
 > training on their equipment soon. However, am unsure whether to go for
canoe
 > or kayak. I won't be carrying tons of stuff, but will still have a weeks
 > worth or so. Maybe as much as a tent, sleeping bag and clothes etc ..

So, how smelly do you want to get? I think you would be hard pushed to get a
week's worth of kit in a modern kayak. Possibly a little more in a longer,
older boat such as a GRP one, or perhas a Corsica or similar. Otherwise, go
for a Canadian to carry your gear. But it will be heavy, so get wheels for
portaging too. Better still go in a group, it's safer too.


 > Also, I see some fibre glass canoes going pretty cheaply, but haven't got
 > anywhere to store one at the moment. So, should I consider renting one, or
 > finding a neighbour with a garden I can hide it in when not in use?

GRP rots. Apart from the seepage through the gel coat where it will be
cracked, it deteriorates with time and becomes osmotic. So you can test a
boat and it appears watertight, but if you leave it long enough in the water
it fills up osmotically. Since most second hand GRP boats will be getting a
bit long in the tooth - unless you go for a specialist boat, then look for a
plastic boat. In fact, if you opt for a kayak, a sea-kayak or a touring boat
with deck hatches would be adeal.

 > What sort of kayak/canoe should I look at for this type of beginners tour?
 > I've used one previously that was in a friends garden, but it got really
 > uncomfortable on my back from leaning back on the entrance edge. Is this
 > because it may have been too small for me? I'm 6ft, 16st.

Sitting in a kayak curves your spine the wrong way and it does get
uncomfortable, so some people lean back - which is bad for paddling. You nee
d to warm up, stretch your muscles and lean forwards to get the best kayak
paddling position. It still gets uncomfortable.

The best you can do is set the footrests, knee braces, and seat and seat
back in the best position for you - and the trim of the boat. But you'll
probably still get a sore back.

 > What sort of distance would you expect to cover per day?
 >

What speed can you continuously paddle in flat water with no current?
Believe it or not most people manage 4-5km at a steady pace. If you try on a
canal, you can pass a canal boat at the leagl 4kph, but he has a motor and
he'll soon pass you as you tire. So, on a canal, for instance, ignoring
locks, you might manage say six hours paddling per day, so 24km per day.
However, if the current of the river is flowing downstream at 2kph, and you
are paddling against it, that at least halves your speed and distance
covered. (It doesn't necessarily increase it by as much on your return
journey either as your boat will usually descend at a slower rate than the
flow of the river.)

How fit are you? Could you paddle 24km per day for four days?

If you must, I'd find some buddies at your local club, get some experience
in and persuade some kind soul to drop you off upstream and you and a couple
of others paddle downstream.

Ewan Scott<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Ewan Scott wrote:

 > So, how smelly do you want to get? I think you would be hard pushed to get a
 > week's worth of kit in a modern kayak. Possibly a little more in a longer,
 > older boat such as a GRP one, or perhas a Corsica or similar.

A dedicated touring boat has /plenty/ of room. I've had enough gear in
a kayak for a 3 day *ski touring* trip off a Norwegian hydro loch, so I
really don't see that a few extra days without the plastic boots, skis,
poles and extra warm clothing etc. will be /that/ problematical! The
sort of things folk like to cartwheel in stoppers won't do you any good,
granted.

 > for a Canadian to carry your gear. But it will be heavy, so get wheels for
 > portaging too.

Certainly easier to load in terms of both absolute volume and ease if
input and output, and though it's slower that's only really an issue if
you're in a hurry. I'd personally take a Canadian for this sort of job,
especially as they offer you more potential comfort from a variety of
seating/kneeling positions, but some people prefer kayaks.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch.TakeThisOut@dundee.ac.uk <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/" target="_blank">http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Peter Clinch" <p.j.clinch.TakeThisOut@dundee.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:d1pd28$n1n$1@dux.dundee.ac.uk...
 > Ewan Scott wrote:
 >
  >> So, how smelly do you want to get? I think you would be hard pushed to
  >> get a
  >> week's worth of kit in a modern kayak. Possibly a little more in a
  >> longer,
  >> older boat such as a GRP one, or perhas a Corsica or similar.
 >
 > A dedicated touring boat has /plenty/ of room. I've had enough gear in a
 > kayak for a 3 day *ski touring* trip off a Norwegian hydro loch, so I
 > really don't see that a few extra days without the plastic boots, skis,
 > poles and extra warm clothing etc. will be /that/ problematical! The sort
 > of things folk like to cartwheel in stoppers won't do you any good,
 > granted.
 >
  >> for a Canadian to carry your gear. But it will be heavy, so get wheels
  >> for
  >> portaging too.
 >
 > Certainly easier to load in terms of both absolute volume and ease if
 > input and output, and though it's slower that's only really an issue if
 > you're in a hurry. I'd personally take a Canadian for this sort of job,
 > especially as they offer you more potential comfort from a variety of
 > seating/kneeling positions, but some people prefer kayaks.
 >

On a weeks tour of Cornwall on bicycle, I managed with tent, sleeping bag,
roll mat and a weeks worth of clothing. Granted, I took no cooking
facilities and just grabbed sandwiches and pub food on the way round. I'm
looking at not taking a tent and replacing it with an outdoor hammock, which
will take up 1/4 of the space and weight.

I guess that I will 'go with the flow' on any extended journey, as I'd like
to enjoy it and not have to overwork too much! So, I will just go up and
down on one day trips for near my home. Hopefully I will find someone else
willing to go away on a trip, especially as I'd have no way of getting there
with equipment. How do most people do downstream trips, you must always have
a dedicated driver? I'm presuming taking a kayak on the bus/train/tube is a
no-no!

Are most kayaks now made from plastic rather than GRP? Does anyone have
manufacturer links, shops etc?

Thanks<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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elyob wrote:

 > Are most kayaks now made from plastic rather than GRP? Does anyone have
 > manufacturer links, shops etc?

More kayaks are plastic now, but touring, especially on the sea, is a
niche where glass is still an option, and in fact a preferable one in
many cases. It slides through the water better and is easier to repair
and maintain (plastic is pretty bombproof, but it just gets rough and
slow with time, where glass can be repaired back to a smooth finish
quite easily). There's no particular reason not to use a sea kayak in a
large river, especially a smaller one.

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.knoydart.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.knoydart.co.uk/</a> are sea kayaking and touring specialists.
They have a line of folding boats which actually are train portable,
though we're not talking Brompton levels of fold convenience here, more
like 90 minutes assembly.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch.TakeThisOut@dundee.ac.uk <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/" target="_blank">http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"Peter Clinch" <p.j.clinch RemoveThis @dundee.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:d1pfrt$osn$1@dux.dundee.ac.uk...
 > elyob wrote:
 >
  >> Are most kayaks now made from plastic rather than GRP? Does anyone have
  >> manufacturer links, shops etc?
 >
 > More kayaks are plastic now, but touring, especially on the sea, is a
 > niche where glass is still an option, and in fact a preferable one in many
 > cases. It slides through the water better and is easier to repair and
 > maintain (plastic is pretty bombproof, but it just gets rough and slow
 > with time, where glass can be repaired back to a smooth finish quite
 > easily). There's no particular reason not to use a sea kayak in a large
 > river, especially a smaller one.
 >
 > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.knoydart.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.knoydart.co.uk/</a> are sea kayaking and touring specialists. They
 > have a line of folding boats which actually are train portable, though
 > we're not talking Brompton levels of fold convenience here, more like 90
 > minutes assembly.

It'll be a while before I can afford a Knoydart! ... The guy at the training
place down the road said me in a sea kayak is like a formula one car for a
trainee driver. Personally, I wish I'd done my test in a formula one car.

I think I'll see how I get on over the next few months, and the club/member
might lend me an old one if I find someone to go with. You never know!

Still, I think I'll see how I get on before I book the holidays up!<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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"elyob" <newsprofile.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:FFI%d.3001$Ab.1595@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...

  > > The Devises to Westminster Canoe Race takes place over Easter if you
  > > want to see how other people do it.
  > >
 >
 > I see the record was something like 15 hours, and am wondering when they
are
 > likely to come through the Kingston area.

The Juniors race uses Thames Young Mariners (TYM) at Ham Fields as an
overnight stop. In fact, TYM may be your best local option for advice:
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://freespace.virgin.net/tym.tym/" target="_blank">http://freespace.virgin.net/tym.tym/</a>

--
MatSav<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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