Obstruction - Start / Finish Line

External Since: Oct 23, 2003 Posts: 18

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:38:00 UTC, "Garry McGonigal" <cecwin DeleteThis @mnsi.net>
wrote:

> > Denominating them as marks provides a penalty through 'sailing the
> > course'..
> >
> >
> > This is the major stupidity involved in having the RC in the middle of
> > the arena.
> >
> > Bad setup, bad result.
> >
> > Realistically, if you figure you absolutely must have the RC in the
> > middle, exactly WHY is it so important that the line be closed?
> > Except for the RC's convenience? If it is because the RC likes it that
> > way, they are not doing their proper job.
> >
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> And if the Finish line has the RC boat and outer pin designated as marks,
> and a boat passes through that 'invisible line, it probably then can correct
> itself, by coming back and going around either end and sailing a proper
> course.
>
> One must understand that not all race courses are windward-leeward, and you
> probably do. Modified Olympic courses have the RC boat in the middle, and
> various marks of equal distance radiating out from it. In this case, there
> are 8 rounding marks, all .75 miles from the RC boat, each mark 45 degrees
> on angle. So a variety of possible legs, some .75 miles, some 1.5 miles.
> Other courses of a similar makeup have 6 marks. And so on. But the RC boat
> is central, and some of the legs, besides start and finish, bring boats on a
> line by the start-finish area.

This was the form of course used for quite a number of years in the
Toronto area and still is by some of the local clubs.
Having the RC in the middle was 'easy' but not always 'good'.
The last year or 2 that this setup was used, the line was proscribed
by using the wording I set out " when proceeding from mark 2 to 3,
mark 1 and the RC shall be left either both to starboard, or both to
port". They may or may not have also said, the line between the RC and
mark 1 is an obstruction to any boat sailing a leg which does not
commence or end at the start or finish line.

But having the RC in the middle always gave lousy racing for
closewinded boats when the wind shifted. Having the RC at the bottom
was not much better. There were some trials which made the line a gate
on the second round, so that a change of course could be made,
providing a better beat for 1/2 of the round (in contradistinction to
a fetch from the 'bottom'). In the end, we stopped using fixed mark
courses. Locally Ashbridges Bay YC continues to use a fixed circle of
marks for weeknight racing, but starts are from the bottom and course
changes are rare if not extinct. Still gives good weeknight racing:
its not the full-on level, its the full-fun level!
The RC uses the 'bottom' mark as the start/finish pin, and even if
fleets are still starting when the first (fast) boats get back, the
problem is for the incoming boats (on port and rounding into the face
of the starboard starters!)..

> In terms of why a line msut be closed probably had more to do with various
> classes out on the course, slow classes going first. Hence, closing the
> line to just finishes not only helps the RC in recording finishes, but
> avoids any confusion/mayhem that might occur when you have: boats finishing
> but are mixed in with boats still sailing a non-finishing leg (certain rules
> apply to a finishing boat that do not apply to another); and another class
> coming from the opposite direction through the finish line while still on a
> longer racing leg, opposed to boats trying to finish. It does happen.

Personally, I now believe that any course which seems to 'require' a
closed line, is a cop-out by the RC. There is no real reason why the
RC *has to* remain exactly *there* to finish the racers. It *may* be
reasonable to start from there, but realistically the RC could just as
easily move to some other point of the course to finish boats. It does
not have to anchor.

> Even some windward-leeward courses have the RC boat on the course, closer to
> the leeward marks/gates.

But the line should NOT be immediately to weather of the leeward mark
*AND* closed. The RC should be below the leeward mark. If the RC wants
to use the leeward mark as the pin it should move to the other side so
that all boats leave the pin to port.

> But, regardless of how the start-finish restriction may be stated in the
> SI's, unless there is linkage to a definition of penalties, or ways an
> offending boat can correct itself without penalty, the rule is useless when
> it comes to a Protest Committee hearing. Nothing is 'understood'.

If you feel you *have to*, then making them marks, and defining the
course to proscribe passing between them automagically provides the
penalty....DNF for not sailing the course!

There were USYRU and IYRU cases about 'required sides' etc. and the
'string rule' which discussed this... Long since lost in the mists of
history unfortunately.

> Now with starting boxes, as an example, regattas spell that out very
> clearly. If you are in your start, you stay in the box or this may happen.
> If it is not your start and you offend, then this may happen.
>
Exactly.

Geoff

External Since: Apr 09, 2004 Posts: 18

Geoff,

The current definition of "finish" does not require "sailing the
course". There is no connection to the string rule.

The only option allowed to a Race Committee if a boat does not sail the
course correctly is to protest the infringing boat. Automagical DNF
penalties are not allowed. If a boat crosses the finish line from the
direction of the last mark it has finished, subject only to the
technicalities spelled out in the definition. Note that the boat does
not need to round the last mark; it only needs to cross the finish line
from the direction of the last mark.

I won't argue whether this is right or wrong, but it is the current
rule. See ISAF Case 45 for further reinforcement that the definition of
finish cannot be changed.

Regards,
Gene Fuller

R. G. Newbury wrote:

[big snip]

> If you feel you *have to*, then making them marks, and defining the
> course to proscribe passing between them automagically provides the
> penalty....DNF for not sailing the course!
>
> There were USYRU and IYRU cases about 'required sides' etc. and the
> 'string rule' which discussed this... Long since lost in the mists of
> history unfortunately.
>
>
>>Now with starting boxes, as an example, regattas spell that out very
>>clearly. If you are in your start, you stay in the box or this may happen.
>>If it is not your start and you offend, then this may happen.
>>
>
> Exactly.
>
> Geoff
>
>
>