Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:13:43 GMT, Pat Fusk <" pwf"@nb.sympatico.ca>
wrote:

 >According to Transport Canada, a boat is a boat, take it from there.
 >
 >Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
 >
  >> Hi,
  >>
  >> For the Operator's Card requirement, does an electric trolling-motor
  >> count as a "motor"? The reason I ask is that Near Cove (8ft Walker Bay) is
  >> often fitted with a Minn Kota 30-lb electric, but never a gas outboard.
  >> Does my Lady have to have an Operator's Card to run it? ( I have a card,
  >> but she doesn't) I've looked at the CG website, even the actual
  >> regulations, but can't find a definition of "motor".
  >>
  >> Lloyd Sumpter
  >> "Far Cove" Catalina 36
 >
 >

Motor=Mechanical Propulsion

If you want to get picky, internal or external combustion "motors" are
correctly called engines, not motors.

BB<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Operator's Card: What's a "motor"? 

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:14:05 +0000, BinaryBillTheSailo wrote:

 > On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:13:43 GMT, Pat Fusk <" pwf"@nb.sympatico.ca>
 > wrote:
 >
  >>According to Transport Canada, a boat is a boat, take it from there.
  >>
  >>Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
  >>
   >>> Hi,
   >>>
   >>> For the Operator's Card requirement, does an electric trolling-motor
   >>> count as a "motor"? The reason I ask is that Near Cove (8ft Walker Bay) is
   >>> often fitted with a Minn Kota 30-lb electric, but never a gas outboard.
   >>> Does my Lady have to have an Operator's Card to run it? ( I have a card,
   >>> but she doesn't) I've looked at the CG website, even the actual
   >>> regulations, but can't find a definition of "motor".
   >>>
   >>> Lloyd Sumpter
   >>> "Far Cove" Catalina 36
  >>
  >>
 >
 > Motor=Mechanical Propulsion
 >
 > If you want to get picky, internal or external combustion "motors" are
 > correctly called engines, not motors.
 >
 > BB

Actually, I didn't want to get picky, or know the "definition" of motor
(vs Engine, etc). I need to know what Transport Canada regards a "motor"
because that's the cornerstone of the Operator's Card requirement: that
the boat have a "motor". And as we all know, the LEGAL definition of a
word is not necessarily the "common" definition (eg "consideration").

I'd like to get my Lady to get her Card anyway, so she can legally operate
the Tin Boat, or Far Cove. But she LIKES running Near Cove with the
electric, so she's more likely to get one if it's required for that. She
clearly does NOT need one to paddle Miss Lily.

Lloyd Sumpter - Operator Card #0150026627<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Operator's Card: What's a "motor"? 

BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com wrote:

 > If you want to get picky, internal or external combustion "motors" are
 > correctly called engines, not motors.

OK, let's get picky. A diesel powered ship is a motorship.
They have been called that by the entire world of regulators
and engineers for close to a hundred years.

Rick<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Operator's Card: What's a "motor"? 

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 17:16:20 GMT, Rick <woodtugs RemoveThis @dearthlink.nyet>
wrote:

 >BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com wrote:
 >
  >> If you want to get picky, internal or external combustion "motors" are
  >> correctly called engines, not motors.
 >
 >OK, let's get picky. A diesel powered ship is a motorship.
 >They have been called that by the entire world of regulators
 >and engineers for close to a hundred years.
 >

That would be a motorship powered by a diesel ENGINE. Regulators and
Engineers have made mistakes before, and they will again.

BB<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Operator's Card: What's a "motor"? 

BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com wrote:

 > That would be a motorship powered by a diesel ENGINE. Regulators and
 > Engineers have made mistakes before, and they will again.

Bavarian Motor Works makes motorcars.

Yamaha makes nice outboard motors.

Rick<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Operator's Card: What's a "motor"? 

 >Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
 >
  >> For the Operator's Card requirement, does an electric trolling-motor
  >> count as a "motor"? The reason I ask is that Near Cove (8ft Walker Bay) is
  >> often fitted with a Minn Kota 30-lb electric, but never a gas outboard.
  >> Does my Lady have to have an Operator's Card to run it? ( I have a card,
  >> but she doesn't) I've looked at the CG website, even the actual
  >> regulations, but can't find a definition of "motor".

It does if you live in Connecticut. And you have to have the boat
registered to boot.

As to definition:

Engine: A machine that converts energy into mechanical force or
motion. Such a machine distinguished from an electric, spring-driven,
or hydraulic motor by its use of a fuel.

Motor: Something, such as a machine or an engine, that produces or
imparts motion.

A device that converts any form of energy into mechanical energy,
especially an internal-combustion engine or an arrangement of coils
and magnets that converts electric current into mechanical power.

A motor vehicle, especially an automobile: "It was a night of lovers.
All along the highway... motors were parked and dim figures were
clasped in revery" (Sinclair Lewis).

So, an engine is defined as exclusive from a motor by it's use of
energy transfer, but a motor is defined as encompassing all methods of
emparting energy into mechanical power for motion.

And to tell the truth, I have been misusing those terms for years.

I'll be damned.

Later,

Tom
S. Woodstock, CT
----------
"My rod and my reel - they comfort me."

St. Pete, 12 Lb. Test<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Operator's Card: What's a "motor"? 

She should have one anyway...unless you plan to retire from boating by 2009.
I would bet money that your electric outboard is considered a motor for the
'cards' purpose.
If I could find my phamplet, I'd look it up.

Lloyd Sumpter <lsumpter RemoveThis @dccnet.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2004.01.15.21.24.02.734871@dccnet.com...
 > On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:14:05 +0000, BinaryBillTheSailo wrote:
 >
  > > On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:13:43 GMT, Pat Fusk <" pwf"@nb.sympatico.ca>
  > > wrote:
  > >
   > >>According to Transport Canada, a boat is a boat, take it from there.
   > >>
   > >>Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
   > >>
   > >>> Hi,
   > >>>
   > >>> For the Operator's Card requirement, does an electric
trolling-motor
   > >>> count as a "motor"? The reason I ask is that Near Cove (8ft Walker
Bay) is
   > >>> often fitted with a Minn Kota 30-lb electric, but never a gas
outboard.
   > >>> Does my Lady have to have an Operator's Card to run it? ( I have a
card,
   > >>> but she doesn't) I've looked at the CG website, even the actual
   > >>> regulations, but can't find a definition of "motor".
   > >>>
   > >>> Lloyd Sumpter
   > >>> "Far Cove" Catalina 36
   > >>
   > >>
  > >
  > > Motor=Mechanical Propulsion
  > >
  > > If you want to get picky, internal or external combustion "motors" are
  > > correctly called engines, not motors.
  > >
  > > BB
 >
 > Actually, I didn't want to get picky, or know the "definition" of motor
 > (vs Engine, etc). I need to know what Transport Canada regards a "motor"
 > because that's the cornerstone of the Operator's Card requirement: that
 > the boat have a "motor". And as we all know, the LEGAL definition of a
 > word is not necessarily the "common" definition (eg "consideration").
 >
 > I'd like to get my Lady to get her Card anyway, so she can legally operate
 > the Tin Boat, or Far Cove. But she LIKES running Near Cove with the
 > electric, so she's more likely to get one if it's required for that. She
 > clearly does NOT need one to paddle Miss Lily.
 >
 > Lloyd Sumpter - Operator Card #0150026627
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Operator's Card: What's a "motor"? 

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 23:12:47 GMT, "Don White" <white.RemoveThis@nsknospm.sympatico.ca>
wrote:

 >She should have one anyway...unless you plan to retire from boating by 2009.
 >I would bet money that your electric outboard is considered a motor for the
 >'cards' purpose.
 >If I could find my phamplet, I'd look it up.
 >

I spent some time on the TransportCanada website to see if I could find anything
to sort this out. The only clue I found is that whenever they refer to a
"motor", they describe it as being either 10 H.P. or 7.5 KW in size. That
indicates to me that in Canada, regardless of whether the mechanical populsion
is electric, gasoline or diesel, it doesn't count unless it is over 10 HP or 7.5
KW in size. That also seems to indicate that Canada considers any type of power
to be a "motor", but motors of any kind under a certain size don't count any
way.

I would suggest that your "Lady" should be told that if she doesn't think that
she can pass a rudimentary test to get that ticket, then she probably SHOULD NOT
operate any craft with a motor or engine of any size whatsoever.

BB


 >Lloyd Sumpter <lsumpter.RemoveThis@dccnet.com> wrote in message
 >news:pan.2004.01.15.21.24.02.734871@dccnet.com...
  >> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:14:05 +0000, BinaryBillTheSailo wrote:
  >>
   >> > On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 13:13:43 GMT, Pat Fusk <" pwf"@nb.sympatico.ca>
   >> > wrote:
   >> >
   >> >>According to Transport Canada, a boat is a boat, take it from there.
   >> >>
   >> >>Lloyd Sumpter wrote:
   >> >>
   >> >>> Hi,
   >> >>>
   >> >>> For the Operator's Card requirement, does an electric
 >trolling-motor
   >> >>> count as a "motor"? The reason I ask is that Near Cove (8ft Walker
 >Bay) is
   >> >>> often fitted with a Minn Kota 30-lb electric, but never a gas
 >outboard.
   >> >>> Does my Lady have to have an Operator's Card to run it? ( I have a
 >card,
   >> >>> but she doesn't) I've looked at the CG website, even the actual
   >> >>> regulations, but can't find a definition of "motor".
   >> >>>
   >> >>> Lloyd Sumpter
   >> >>> "Far Cove" Catalina 36
   >> >>
   >> >>
   >> >
   >> > Motor=Mechanical Propulsion
   >> >
   >> > If you want to get picky, internal or external combustion "motors" are
   >> > correctly called engines, not motors.
   >> >
   >> > BB
  >>
  >> Actually, I didn't want to get picky, or know the "definition" of motor
  >> (vs Engine, etc). I need to know what Transport Canada regards a "motor"
  >> because that's the cornerstone of the Operator's Card requirement: that
  >> the boat have a "motor". And as we all know, the LEGAL definition of a
  >> word is not necessarily the "common" definition (eg "consideration").
  >>
  >> I'd like to get my Lady to get her Card anyway, so she can legally operate
  >> the Tin Boat, or Far Cove. But she LIKES running Near Cove with the
  >> electric, so she's more likely to get one if it's required for that. She
  >> clearly does NOT need one to paddle Miss Lily.
  >>
  >> Lloyd Sumpter - Operator Card #0150026627
  >>
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Operator's Card: What's a "motor"? 

 > BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com wrote:
 >
  > > If you want to get picky, internal or external combustion "motors" are
  > > correctly called engines, not motors.

Don't get too picky, because that is not correct. A "motor" is a
device that imparts motion. And engine can just about any mechanical
device. An motor could part of an engine. Or a motor itself can be
called an engine. So while it's normal to refer to your powerplant as
an engine, it no less correct to call it a motor.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Operator's Card: What's a "motor"? 

Been motoring around in a number of ways (bus, car, cycle, boat); but have
yet to encounter engine used in that context.

Have heard of engine used in somewhat archaic terms to describe a mechanical
device used to perform some sort of task. Which is what engineers do (hi
Lloyd!). )

surfnturf


"Curtis CCR" <curtisccr DeleteThis @sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:c678797a.0401161511.3e8ebf81@posting.google.com...
  > > BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com wrote:
  > >
   > > > If you want to get picky, internal or external combustion "motors" are
   > > > correctly called engines, not motors.
 >
 > Don't get too picky, because that is not correct. A "motor" is a
 > device that imparts motion. And engine can just about any mechanical
 > device. An motor could part of an engine. Or a motor itself can be
 > called an engine. So while it's normal to refer to your powerplant as
 > an engine, it no less correct to call it a motor.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Operator's Card: What's a "motor"? 

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:14:05 GMT, BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com wrote:



 >
 >If you want to get picky, internal or external combustion "motors" are
 >correctly called engines, not motors.
 >



The definitions can be found at Bartleby.vom


engine

SYLLABICATION: en·gine

1a. A machine that converts energy into mechanical force or motion. b.
Such a machine distinguished from an electric, spring-driven, or
hydraulic motor by its use of a fuel. 2a. A mechanical appliance,
instrument, or tool: engines of war. b. An agent, instrument, or means
of accomplishment. 3. A locomotive. 4. A fire engine. 5. Computer
Science A search engine.

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.bartleby.com/61/51/E0145100.html" target="_blank">http://www.bartleby.com/61/51/E0145100.html</a>


motor

SYLLABICATION: mo·tor

1. Something, such as a machine or an engine, that produces or imparts
motion. 2. A device that converts any form of energy into mechanical
energy, especially an internal-combustion engine or an arrangement of
coils and magnets that converts electric current into mechanical
power. 3. A motor vehicle, especially an automobile: “It was a night
of lovers. All along the highway … motors were parked and dim figures
were clasped in revery” (Sinclair Lewis, Babbitt 1922).

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.bartleby.com/61/24/M0442400.html" target="_blank">http://www.bartleby.com/61/24/M0442400.html</a>


An engine, it would seem, is a type of motor.

Jack (retired teacher - some Language Arts and English)

__________________________________________________
Jack Dale
Swiftsure Sailing Academy
Director/ISPA and CYA Instructor
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.swiftsuresailing.com" target="_blank">http://www.swiftsuresailing.com</a>
Phone: 1 (877) 470-SAIL (toll free)
__________________________________________________<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Operator's Card: What's a "motor"? 

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 22:29:24 GMT, Jack Dale <jackdale.DeleteThis@nospam.telus.net> wrote:

 >On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 14:14:05 GMT, BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com wrote:
 >
 >
 >
  >>
  >>If you want to get picky, internal or external combustion "motors" are
  >>correctly called engines, not motors.
  >>
 >
 >
 >
 >The definitions can be found at Bartleby.vom
 >
 >
 >engine
 >
 >SYLLABICATION: en·gine
 >
 >1a. A machine that converts energy into mechanical force or motion. b.
 >Such a machine distinguished from an electric, spring-driven, or
 >hydraulic motor by its use of a fuel. 2a. A mechanical appliance,
 >instrument, or tool: engines of war. b. An agent, instrument, or means
 >of accomplishment. 3. A locomotive. 4. A fire engine. 5. Computer
 >Science A search engine.
 >
 >http://www.bartleby.com/61/51/E0145100.html
 >
 >
 >motor
 >
 >SYLLABICATION: mo·tor
 >
 >1. Something, such as a machine or an engine, that produces or imparts
 >motion. 2. A device that converts any form of energy into mechanical
 >energy, especially an internal-combustion engine or an arrangement of
 >coils and magnets that converts electric current into mechanical
 >power. 3. A motor vehicle, especially an automobile: “It was a night
 >of lovers. All along the highway … motors were parked and dim figures
 >were clasped in revery” (Sinclair Lewis, Babbitt 1922).
 >
 >http://www.bartleby.com/61/24/M0442400.html
 >
 >
 >An engine, it would seem, is a type of motor.
 >

Fair enough. So all engines are motors, but not all motors are engines?

BB

 >Jack (retired teacher - some Language Arts and English)
 >
 >__________________________________________________
 >Jack Dale
 >Swiftsure Sailing Academy
 >Director/ISPA and CYA Instructor
 >http://www.swiftsuresailing.com
 >Phone: 1 (877) 470-SAIL (toll free)
 >__________________________________________________
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Operator's Card: What's a "motor"? 

Moot points,
D-day is 2009, then TC says "everyone" operating any vessel in coastal
waterways will have to have one. They seem to think this will keep all the
idiots off the water. The license test is a joke and a cashgrab. So, we'll
have the same problems only they will be licensed then.

2centsworth

Bryan
 >> Stay informed about: Operator's Card: What's a "motor"?