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Next: Aluminum Boatbuilders?
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External
Since: Oct 04, 2003
Posts: 46
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 7:32 pm
Post subject: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls
Archived from groups: rec>boats>building (more info?)
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Whenever I read opinions, they tend to be given from the standpoint of "I
believe in method A as opposed to method B"
What I need to know, before embarking on an expensive and time-consuming
build project, is some good advice on the relative strength and longevity
of epoxy and cloth covered plywood hulls.
The boat I am considering is the Benford Sailing Dory (36')
My instincts suggest that this material is perfectly adequate for a Blue
water cruiser (Junk rigged), but my instincts, I find, are all the better
for listening to good advice 
TIA
steveb |
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External
Since: Jun 23, 2003
Posts: 241
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 7:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Ask Jay!! (and I mean Jay Benford, not Leno).
I'm not sure that Jay Benford is still around, I sure hope so. He is a great
designer of boats in that range (and larger) in various materials. He has
written some good books. (I enjoy his Small Ships book in particular)
The Cascade Yachts Classic designs were from Jay Benford.
Also he seems to be interested in the questions from those building his
designs (unlike Bruce R.).
If Jay designed his boat to be built our of ply then he should have a glass
schedule that you should follow. If you are still at the 'study plan' stage,
then send him and email and he or someone in his staff should provide you
with the glass recomendations.
--
My opinion and experience. FWIW
Steve
s/v Good Intentions |
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External
Since: Jun 21, 2003
Posts: 58
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 7:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:12:02 -0700, "Steve" <esteve DeleteThis @hctc.com> wrote:
>Ask Jay!! (and I mean Jay Benford, not Leno).
>
>I'm not sure that Jay Benford is still around, I sure hope so. He is a great
>designer of boats in that range (and larger) in various materials.
Ahem............... ahem. Opinions will vary about this.
Bill Garden is supposed to have said, "They say I design character
boats. If that's true, Benford designs caricature boats."<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls |
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External
Since: Jun 23, 2003
Posts: 241
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 7:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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External
Since: Jun 23, 2003
Posts: 36
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 7:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:32:45 +0100, steveb <me.TakeThisOut@privacy.net> wrote:
>Whenever I read opinions, they tend to be given from the standpoint of "I
>believe in method A as opposed to method B"
>
>What I need to know, before embarking on an expensive and time-consuming
>build project, is some good advice on the relative strength and longevity
>of epoxy and cloth covered plywood hulls.
>
>The boat I am considering is the Benford Sailing Dory (36')
>
>My instincts suggest that this material is perfectly adequate for a Blue
>water cruiser (Junk rigged), but my instincts, I find, are all the better
>for listening to good advice
>
Have you visited Sam Devlin's Web site? (www.devlinboat.com) He has
built some 40-foot-plus motor cruisers from fiberglass/plywood/epoxy
composites. His scantlings are substantial, and they look great.
- Rick Tyler<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls |
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External
Since: Aug 14, 2003
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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I have only been building for a year or so, however, we have a 30 or so year
old sailboat my dad built out of exterior A/C plywood from a magazine plan.
It seems just as strong as the day he built it, propper care seems to make
all the difference.
Personaly, I would have no worries about building a larger boat out of
plywood. I just would use quality supplies and pay attention to every
detail.
Wasnt the Navy P/T Boats from WW II made from plywood and as long as 50 to
65 feet ??
Just my 2 cents.
John
"steveb" <me.TakeThisOut@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:kvjdov0scllcd8f256fpv06i1guu81atah@4ax.com...
> Whenever I read opinions, they tend to be given from the standpoint of "I
> believe in method A as opposed to method B"
>
> What I need to know, before embarking on an expensive and time-consuming
> build project, is some good advice on the relative strength and longevity
> of epoxy and cloth covered plywood hulls.
>
> The boat I am considering is the Benford Sailing Dory (36')
>
> My instincts suggest that this material is perfectly adequate for a Blue
> water cruiser (Junk rigged), but my instincts, I find, are all the better
> for listening to good advice
>
> TIA
>
> steveb<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls |
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External
Since: Jun 21, 2003
Posts: 58
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 11:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:25:37 -0700, "Steve" <esteve.RemoveThis@hctc.com> wrote:
>I wouldn't have expected such a comment from Mr Garden..
Why? Boat designers have their adherents and detractors like most
anyone else in the public eye. Benford's designs, in my humble
opinion, often have a clumsy "pirate ship" look.
He was a promoter of ferrocement in the 70's.
I knew a small boat designed by Benford which had its sail plan so
badly calculated that it would not come about. (!!) A Benford pinky
schooner named the "Sunrise" was built around here (Seattle) about
twenty five years ago. Wonderful job of building; dubious design. The
builder was an old timer. He had many stories about the level of the
designing. One that I can recall is that the galley range had one foot
of clearance under a cabin structural member.
But you can't argue about taste.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls |
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External
Since: Jun 23, 2003
Posts: 12
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 12:11 am
Post subject: Re: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"steveb" <me.TakeThisOut@privacy.net> wrote...
>
> My instincts suggest that this material is perfectly adequate for a Blue
> water cruiser (Junk rigged), but my instincts, I find, are all the better
> for listening to good advice
Give a call to Sam Devlin in Olympia, WA. He builds power and sail boats to
45'+, all stitch 'n' glue plywood...<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls |
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External
Since: Jun 22, 2003
Posts: 324
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 3:39 am
Post subject: Re: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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esteve says:
>I wouldn't have expected such a comment from Mr Garden..
I don't know - I thought it was pretty funny... I work with a designer
(Yves-Marie Tanton) about whom Bob Perry wrote an article saying "no-one who
knows Yves could ever accuse him of being conventional" or words to that
effect. They worked together for years, and Bob was definitely writing
tongue-in-cheek.
>That now lowers my
>respect for him by on notch. (still a ways to go yet though).
Shame - he draws a great boat. Designers should be judged by their boats, not
their thoughts.
Steve<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls |
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External
Since: Jun 25, 2003
Posts: 916
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 7:07 am
Post subject: Re: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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steveb (me@privacy.net) writes:
> What I need to know, before embarking on an expensive and time-consuming
> build project, is some good advice on the relative strength and longevity
> of epoxy and cloth covered plywood hulls.
>
> The boat I am considering is the Benford Sailing Dory (36')
>
> My instincts suggest that this material is perfectly adequate for a Blue
> water cruiser (Junk rigged), but my instincts, I find, are all the better
> for listening to good advice
plywood is fine for blue water cruising. plenty of them have been built.
you have to cover the outside underwater with resin to keep the worms out.
you also have to be sure all the end grain is sealed so it doesn't soak up
water. plywood boats go together fast because they are made of big pieces.
plywood comes pre-sanded.
there are different kinds of plywood with different weights, bending
characteristics, rot resistence, and so on.
I'm not so sure a 36" dory is the best shape for a sailboat. I haven't
seen the design.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm" target="_blank">www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm</a>
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls |
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External
Since: Jun 23, 2003
Posts: 241
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 12:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Let me clear the air.
What I ment was that I thought Garden's comment was a bit mean-spirited.
However I don't know what the situation was when it was made. Most
professionals, while sharing a mutual respect, will often issue a good
natured 'jab' at another..
Even in these forums, we find good natured ribbing along with down right
mean spirited slander. Some deserved and some to flame.
Bottom line, I usually find something worth while in boat designs regardless
of whose work it is.. (then again, I sometimes just shake my head at a few.)
I will admit that Benfords Small Ships book is more for dreaming than for
practical DIY building. The chapter covering the STUMPET that Benford
designed for Ernest Gann was of special interest to me when I was looking
for a boat well suited to cruising the waters of the Pac.NW. I saw this
boat, in the Friday Harbor but Mr. Gann wasn't around to offer a tour ;o(
Just my thoughts, FWIW.
Steve
s/v Good Intentions >> Stay informed about: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls |
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External
Since: Jun 30, 2003
Posts: 49
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:33 pm
Post subject: Opinion Sought - Derision Begins..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Group,
Admittedly, I'm a lurker in this group. I contribute when I can and have
learned an incredible amount over the last few months. I thank all of you
who spark discussions and debates in this forum.
Having said that, why is it that this "PC" fellow detracts from everyone's
ideas, derides every design and designer that ever lived? Is there no
moderator in here to temper this type of degradation of the forum? Sure,
every one of us has the opportunity to take part in the group, and I
consider it to be a privilege to belong, but somewhere there has to be a
method of maintaining decorum and civility.
Mr. or Mrs. Moderator, what say you?
James Sloan >> Stay informed about: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls |
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External
Since: Jun 21, 2003
Posts: 58
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinion Sought - Derision Begins..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:33:31 GMT, "James W. Sloan"
<jamessloan DeleteThis @mindspring.com> wrote:
>Group,
>
>Admittedly, I'm a lurker in this group. I contribute when I can and have
>learned an incredible amount over the last few months. I thank all of you
>who spark discussions and debates in this forum.
>
>Having said that, why is it that this "PC" fellow detracts from everyone's
>ideas, derides every design and designer that ever lived? Is there no
>moderator in here to temper this type of degradation of the forum? Sure,
>every one of us has the opportunity to take part in the group, and I
>consider it to be a privilege to belong, but somewhere there has to be a
>method of maintaining decorum and civility.
>
>Mr. or Mrs. Moderator, what say you?
Moderator? This is an unmoderated group on USENET.
It's sort of like real life.
I would be satisfied if "PC" would just learn to use a spellcheck. The
way things are he sounds like a written version of that "Swedish Chef"
comedy routine on TV ages ago.
Mind you, I can't speak any language as well as he handles English.
However, it would certainly lend credibility if he could just take the
care to proof his posts. >> Stay informed about: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls |
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External
Since: Jul 30, 2003
Posts: 82
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 10:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Opinion Sought - Derision Begins..... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"James W. Sloan" wrote:
> Group,
>
> Admittedly, I'm a lurker in this group. I contribute when I can and have
> learned an incredible amount over the last few months. I thank all of you
> who spark discussions and debates in this forum.
>
> Having said that, why is it that this "PC" fellow detracts from everyone's
> ideas, derides every design and designer that ever lived? Is there no
> moderator in here to temper this type of degradation of the forum? Sure,
> every one of us has the opportunity to take part in the group, and I
> consider it to be a privilege to belong, but somewhere there has to be a
> method of maintaining decorum and civility.
>
> Mr. or Mrs. Moderator, what say you?
>
> James Sloan
there is no moderator.
--
Life lesson #48:
You can continue to puke long after you think you should be done...... >> Stay informed about: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls |
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External
Since: Oct 04, 2003
Posts: 46
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 1:31 am
Post subject: Re: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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P.C. Ford <cwservices2 DeleteThis @qwest.net> lifted the trapdoor, peered around and
wrote:
>He was a promoter of ferrocement in the 70's.
What is wrong with correctly laid and built ferrocement hulls.
btw, his website actually states that he can no longer reccomend them. My
understanding is that the problem is the build quality, not the material.
steveb<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ --> >> Stay informed about: Opinion Sought - Plywood Hulls |
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