anyone used PEX tubing for boat plumbing?

I didn't use it but now I wish I had. A little more trouble to route but a
heck of a lot cheaper than double stainless clamps on everything and a heck
of a lot neater installation. PEX, Qest and SeaTech fresh water systems
are becoming standard on many high quality production boats.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"surftom" <surftom.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1158672186.931770.278610@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I'm almost in posession of a boat I may have to gut - was thinking
> about all the new inovations in all the systems and was wondering if I
> should consider PEX as an option for plumbing as opposed to hoses and
> clamps.
> anyone have any data experience with PEX and the marine environment,
> vibrations, etc
> thanks
>
> Tom
>
 >> Stay informed about: anyone used PEX tubing for boat plumbing? 

> You ever going to update the site or are you saving it all for the book
> to fund the construction
>
I have a lot of pictures to post but just can't find the time or willpower
to update the site.

> Also, there is a guy on eBay selling plans for a RO system (12 bucks or
> so) that looks a lot like yours - is that you or is it someone else?
>
No that is somebody selling a link to my site.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com
 >> Stay informed about: anyone used PEX tubing for boat plumbing? 

Glenn Ashmore wrote:
> I didn't use it but now I wish I had. A little more trouble to route but a
> heck of a lot cheaper than double stainless clamps on everything and a heck
> of a lot neater installation. PEX, Qest and SeaTech fresh water systems
> are becoming standard on many high quality production boats.

But if you're on some small Caribbean island, you'll have better luck
finding a few hose clamps, some PVC fittings, and flexible hose at the
hardware store if you want to change or fix something. If you're not
straying far from home, it's a good idea.

Evan Gatehouse
 >> Stay informed about: anyone used PEX tubing for boat plumbing? 

> But if you're on some small Caribbean island, you'll have better luck
> finding a few hose clamps, some PVC fittings, and flexible hose at the
> hardware store if you want to change or fix something. If you're not
> straying far from home, it's a good idea.

True but as anyone who has ever attempted a home plumbing project knows you
always end up with 10-20' of extra hose or pipe and a box full of left over
fittings.

However, one should be aware of Home Depot's first law of supply and demand
which states that the screw, bolt or plumbing fitting you need is always the
one you don't have and its exception which states that one should never
underestimate the power of "island engineering".

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com
 >> Stay informed about: anyone used PEX tubing for boat plumbing? 

Glenn Ashmore inscribed in red ink for all to know:
>>But if you're on some small Caribbean island, you'll have better luck
>>finding a few hose clamps, some PVC fittings, and flexible hose at the
>>hardware store if you want to change or fix something. If you're not
>>straying far from home, it's a good idea.
>
>
> True but as anyone who has ever attempted a home plumbing project knows you
> always end up with 10-20' of extra hose or pipe and a box full of left over
> fittings.
>
> However, one should be aware of Home Depot's first law of supply and demand
> which states that the screw, bolt or plumbing fitting you need is always the
> one you don't have and its exception which states that one should never
> underestimate the power of "island engineering".
>


When was the Quest stuff invented? My 1978 Downeast 45 is plumbed with
it...

bob
 >> Stay informed about: anyone used PEX tubing for boat plumbing? 

Glenn Ashmore inscribed in red ink for all to know:
> "RW Salnick" <salnick.RemoveThis@no.spam.salnick.com> wrote
>
>>When was the Quest stuff invented? My 1978 Downeast 45 is plumbed with
>>it...
>>
>
>
> Modular plastic piping systems first came out in the mid '70s. It has had a
> rather checkered past. We started using it in '79 in our apartments because
> copper was so expensive it disappeared every time a unit went vacant. The
> first installations caused a lot of problems. Part of the problem was
> improper assembly by plumbers more familiar with sweat jointing copper.
> Then there was the infamous problem with polybutylene tubing that was to
> soft to hold the fitting clamps. The early Qest pipe was polybutylene and
> there were a couple of class action lawsuits about it. As long as the
> pressure doesn't get to high it is fine but I would not leave it connected
> to shore water when you are off the boat. I think Qest uses cross linked
> polyethylene tubing and polybutylene fittings now.
>
> Polybutylene piping in the US has been replaced with PEX cross linked
> polyethylene. It holds up much better and the fittings have gotten a lot
> more reliable. There are 3 types of connectors: push-on, compression and
> clamp rings. The clamp rings are cheaper and more permanent but the crimp
> tools run about $150. Push-ons are easier to install than compression but I
> suspect that the compression fittings are more reliable.
>

Thanks Glenn..

No, I absolutely refuse to have my boat connected to city water. There
have been 3 near misses on our dock alone in recent times, where a
fitting of some kind failed inside a boat, and the City of Seattle then
endeavored to sink the boat by pumping in gallons and gallons of water.
In the most recent case, the water level rose over the engine,
requiring an engine replacement, in addition to extensive interior
refurbishment. In this particular case, the owner was aware of the
risk, but promised himself that he would always turn off the city water
when leaving the boat. He forgot. I live off my tanks, thank you very
much.

Sorry, I guess that sounded like a rant.

I have had two failures (tiny splits) of my 28 year old polybutylene
Qest plumbing - both immediately above the water heater where the tubing
is subjected to continuous hot soak conditions. In both cases, I have
replaced the tubing runs with Pex. All the fittings are compression
fittings. They work very well.

bob
s/v Eolian
seattle
 >> Stay informed about: anyone used PEX tubing for boat plumbing? 

"RW Salnick" <salnick.DeleteThis@no.spam.salnick.com> wrote
>
> When was the Quest stuff invented? My 1978 Downeast 45 is plumbed with
> it...
>

Modular plastic piping systems first came out in the mid '70s. It has had a
rather checkered past. We started using it in '79 in our apartments because
copper was so expensive it disappeared every time a unit went vacant. The
first installations caused a lot of problems. Part of the problem was
improper assembly by plumbers more familiar with sweat jointing copper.
Then there was the infamous problem with polybutylene tubing that was to
soft to hold the fitting clamps. The early Qest pipe was polybutylene and
there were a couple of class action lawsuits about it. As long as the
pressure doesn't get to high it is fine but I would not leave it connected
to shore water when you are off the boat. I think Qest uses cross linked
polyethylene tubing and polybutylene fittings now.

Polybutylene piping in the US has been replaced with PEX cross linked
polyethylene. It holds up much better and the fittings have gotten a lot
more reliable. There are 3 types of connectors: push-on, compression and
clamp rings. The clamp rings are cheaper and more permanent but the crimp
tools run about $150. Push-ons are easier to install than compression but I
suspect that the compression fittings are more reliable.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com
 >> Stay informed about: anyone used PEX tubing for boat plumbing? 

On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 22:05:36 -0700, Evan Gatehouse2
<ceilydh***NO_SPAM***@3web.net> wrote:

>Glenn Ashmore wrote:
>> I didn't use it but now I wish I had. A little more trouble to route but a
>> heck of a lot cheaper than double stainless clamps on everything and a heck
>> of a lot neater installation. PEX, Qest and SeaTech fresh water systems
>> are becoming standard on many high quality production boats.
>
>But if you're on some small Caribbean island, you'll have better luck
>finding a few hose clamps, some PVC fittings, and flexible hose at the
>hardware store if you want to change or fix something. If you're not
>straying far from home, it's a good idea.

As long as a few spare pipe liners are carried, it should be possible
to attach PVC hose with hose clamps. I'd have thought they won't
crush, after all plastic hose barbs don't.

With PEX and push fit, one thing to remember is to give the pipe a
good hard tug once in the fitting, so the grab ring beds well in.
Sometimes this doesn't automatically happen when the system is
pressurised, and if the pipe slips suddenly at any time it may pop out
of the fitting.

I wonder if compression fittings are better if used with care, using
copper olives and not over tightening. Maybe a bit easier to maintain
in confined spaces.

cheers,
Pete.
 >> Stay informed about: anyone used PEX tubing for boat plumbing? 

On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:19:09 -0700, RW Salnick
<salnick.TakeThisOut@no.spam.salnick.com> wrote:

>Thanks Glenn..
>
>No, I absolutely refuse to have my boat connected to city water. There
>have been 3 near misses on our dock alone in recent times, where a
>fitting of some kind failed inside a boat, and the City of Seattle then
>endeavored to sink the boat by pumping in gallons and gallons of water.
> In the most recent case, the water level rose over the engine,
>requiring an engine replacement, in addition to extensive interior
>refurbishment. In this particular case, the owner was aware of the
>risk, but promised himself that he would always turn off the city water
>when leaving the boat. He forgot. I live off my tanks, thank you very
>much.
>
>Sorry, I guess that sounded like a rant.

I've thought of having direct water on my boat, but just have a header
tank with a float valve fed by a _very_ thin hose. This would then
feed the main tank.

By using the main tank as a 'cache' only a trickle of water is needed
to keep it topped up.

Also by using hose with a narrow bore and thick walls it should be
less vulnerable to damage if moved while frozen.

cheers,
Pete.
 >> Stay informed about: anyone used PEX tubing for boat plumbing? 

Pete C inscribed in red ink for all to know:
> On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:19:09 -0700, RW Salnick
> <salnick DeleteThis @no.spam.salnick.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Thanks Glenn..
>>
>>No, I absolutely refuse to have my boat connected to city water. There
>>have been 3 near misses on our dock alone in recent times, where a
>>fitting of some kind failed inside a boat, and the City of Seattle then
>>endeavored to sink the boat by pumping in gallons and gallons of water.
>> In the most recent case, the water level rose over the engine,
>>requiring an engine replacement, in addition to extensive interior
>>refurbishment. In this particular case, the owner was aware of the
>>risk, but promised himself that he would always turn off the city water
>>when leaving the boat. He forgot. I live off my tanks, thank you very
>>much.
>>
>>Sorry, I guess that sounded like a rant.
>
>
> I've thought of having direct water on my boat, but just have a header
> tank with a float valve fed by a _very_ thin hose. This would then
> feed the main tank.
>
> By using the main tank as a 'cache' only a trickle of water is needed
> to keep it topped up.
>
> Also by using hose with a narrow bore and thick walls it should be
> less vulnerable to damage if moved while frozen.
>
> cheers,
> Pete.

Might be OK Pete, but sounds complicated... and all of the parts of the
system which could be continuously supplied by city water would have to
located outside of the hull for safety. I think that would be the float
tank you mentioned, and since the float tank feeds your main water tank,
then your main tank too. If there is *any* fitting or hose which could
break or pop off and provide a continuous supply of city water inside
the hull, then Murphy says it will, and at the worst time.

The huge advantage of living off the tank is that the hull is already
carrying the water. If it relocates to a lower place in the hull
inadvertantly due to a system failure of some kind, the boat cannot
sink. And of course, freezing is not an issue (unless it is time to
refill the tanks, which Murphy says always happens when it is raining or
snowing, at night, in a gale, when you have a guest, who is in the
middle of a shower)

bob
s/v Eolian
seattle
 >> Stay informed about: anyone used PEX tubing for boat plumbing?