Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car

On Feb 9, 9:35�am, Jim <j... RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> ellis gibb wrote:
> > Utilizing the latest in advanced technology, hybrid cars might just
> > provide a glimpse into the future of automobiles. Hybrid cars sport
> > sleek and futuristic looks, but these cars aren't just for show. These
> > scientific marvels make use of both electric and gas power to make for
> > a cleaner, more cost efficient, and environmentally friendlier car.
> > As the world's supply of oil inevitably runs out and the prices of
> > gasoline continue to skyrocket to staggering new heights, more and
> > more people have begun to look for an alternative way to power their
> > cars, as well as to save some money. Thankfully, the rise of hybrid
> > cars are providing a much needed solution to these problems and more.
> > The popularity of hybrid cars continue to grow as more people begin to
> > realize the many advantages that hybrid cars hold over conventional
> > ones.
> > So, what is a hybrid car and how does it work?
> > As the name suggests, hybrid cars utilizes a combination of different
> > technologies. Hybrid cars use an electric propulsion system together
> > with of a gas propulsion system to great effect....
>
> >http://groups.google.com/group/waterforfueld
>
> I dented my new Honda. backed into a short post at 2 mph. �$3000 in
> damages. �"Bumper" and tail light assembly. �$655 in parts, the rest in
> � labor. �But i digress . . .
>
> I got a Toyota Pruis for a loan car. �I hadn't considered a hybrid when
> I bought my car. �I would not consider anything else now.
>
> What a wonderful car.
>
> Wikipedia has a great article, well worth the read:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

We've had a Lexus 400H for two years now.

Spectacular technology, but most of the benefit from a fuel economy
standpoint is realized around town. (Where my wide does most of her
driving, so that's OK). The unappreciated upside; when you hit the
throttle hard the thing runs like a raped ape. Much, much, better
acceleration than the standard V6 (which we test drove in the
Highlander package).

Real life economy is probably about 8 mpg better than straight gas in
town and 4-5 better than straight gas on the highway. We usually
achieve about 24 mpg real life average, with most of that in stop and
start city traffic. Not bad for a medium size, comfortable vehicle.
 >> Stay informed about: Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car 

On Feb 11, 1:48 pm, "JimH" <as....DeleteThis@nope.com> wrote:
> "Chuck Gould" <chuckgould.ch....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ddde1571-ea8f-467e-bd8f-2bbaecf7909e@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 9, 9:35?am, Jim <j....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > ellis gibb wrote:
> > > Utilizing the latest in advanced technology, hybrid cars might just
> > > provide a glimpse into the future of automobiles. Hybrid cars sport
> > > sleek and futuristic looks, but these cars aren't just for show. These
> > > scientific marvels make use of both electric and gas power to make for
> > > a cleaner, more cost efficient, and environmentally friendlier car.
> > > As the world's supply of oil inevitably runs out and the prices of
> > > gasoline continue to skyrocket to staggering new heights, more and
> > > more people have begun to look for an alternative way to power their
> > > cars, as well as to save some money. Thankfully, the rise of hybrid
> > > cars are providing a much needed solution to these problems and more.
> > > The popularity of hybrid cars continue to grow as more people begin to
> > > realize the many advantages that hybrid cars hold over conventional
> > > ones.
> > > So, what is a hybrid car and how does it work?
> > > As the name suggests, hybrid cars utilizes a combination of different
> > > technologies. Hybrid cars use an electric propulsion system together
> > > with of a gas propulsion system to great effect....
>
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/waterforfueld
>
> > I dented my new Honda. backed into a short post at 2 mph. ?$3000 in
> > damages. ?"Bumper" and tail light assembly. ?$655 in parts, the rest in
> > ? labor. ?But i digress . . .
>
> > I got a Toyota Pruis for a loan car. ?I hadn't considered a hybrid when
> > I bought my car. ?I would not consider anything else now.
>
> > What a wonderful car.
>
> > Wikipedia has a great article, well worth the
> > read:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius-Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> We've had a Lexus 400H for two years now.
>
> Spectacular technology, but most of the benefit from a fuel economy
> standpoint is realized around town. (Where my wide does most of her
> driving, so that's OK). The unappreciated upside; when you hit the
> throttle hard the thing runs like a raped ape. Much, much, better
> acceleration than the standard V6 (which we test drove in the
> Highlander package).
>
> Real life economy is probably about 8 mpg better than straight gas in
> town and 4-5 better than straight gas on the highway. We usually
> achieve about 24 mpg real life average, with most of that in stop and
> start city traffic. Not bad for a medium size, comfortable vehicle.
> ===========================
>
> Hybrids are those who want to *feel good* and proclaim to the world that
> they own one and are doing their part in conserving energy.........as you
> just did...as you will not likely recoup any savings in the long run by
> owning one.
>
> It is my understanding that research on those vehicles has shown that their
> production results in far more energy use than the production of standard
> vehicles.
>
Your understanding is bullshit then.
 >> Stay informed about: Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car 

Chuck Gould wrote:

> On Feb 9, 9:35�am, Jim <j....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>ellis gibb wrote:
>>
>>>Utilizing the latest in advanced technology, hybrid cars might just
>>>provide a glimpse into the future of automobiles. Hybrid cars sport
>>>sleek and futuristic looks, but these cars aren't just for show. These
>>>scientific marvels make use of both electric and gas power to make for
>>>a cleaner, more cost efficient, and environmentally friendlier car.
>>>As the world's supply of oil inevitably runs out and the prices of
>>>gasoline continue to skyrocket to staggering new heights, more and
>>>more people have begun to look for an alternative way to power their
>>>cars, as well as to save some money. Thankfully, the rise of hybrid
>>>cars are providing a much needed solution to these problems and more.
>>>The popularity of hybrid cars continue to grow as more people begin to
>>>realize the many advantages that hybrid cars hold over conventional
>>>ones.
>>>So, what is a hybrid car and how does it work?
>>>As the name suggests, hybrid cars utilizes a combination of different
>>>technologies. Hybrid cars use an electric propulsion system together
>>>with of a gas propulsion system to great effect....
>>
>>>http://groups.google.com/group/waterforfueld
>>
>>I dented my new Honda. backed into a short post at 2 mph. �$3000 in
>>damages. �"Bumper" and tail light assembly. �$655 in parts, the rest in
>>� labor. �But i digress . . .
>>
>>I got a Toyota Pruis for a loan car. �I hadn't considered a hybrid when
>>I bought my car. �I would not consider anything else now.
>>
>>What a wonderful car.
>>
>>Wikipedia has a great article, well worth the read:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>- Show quoted text -
>
>
> We've had a Lexus 400H for two years now.
>
> Spectacular technology, but most of the benefit from a fuel economy
> standpoint is realized around town. (Where my wide does most of her
> driving, so that's OK).

Uh, Chuck...your "wide"?

Let's hope she doesn't read the NG...

DT
 >> Stay informed about: Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car 

> It is my understanding that research on those vehicles has shown that their
> production results in far more energy use than the production of standard
> vehicles.

You must be referring to that silly article that circulated last year
saying that Hummers were more eco friendly and the real cost of a
Prius, over its lifespan, was something like $300,000. It was BS.

I am not saying that people shouldn't drive Hummers - I am a Prius
owner that also drives a American made "crossover vehicle" that
typically gets less than 20mpg. You want to drive a Hummer? Fine
with me! I can't tow a boat with my Prius.
 >> Stay informed about: Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car 

"Chuck Gould" <chuckgould.chuck DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ddde1571-ea8f-467e-bd8f-2bbaecf7909e@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 9, 9:35?am, Jim <j... DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> ellis gibb wrote:
> > Utilizing the latest in advanced technology, hybrid cars might just
> > provide a glimpse into the future of automobiles. Hybrid cars sport
> > sleek and futuristic looks, but these cars aren't just for show. These
> > scientific marvels make use of both electric and gas power to make for
> > a cleaner, more cost efficient, and environmentally friendlier car.
> > As the world's supply of oil inevitably runs out and the prices of
> > gasoline continue to skyrocket to staggering new heights, more and
> > more people have begun to look for an alternative way to power their
> > cars, as well as to save some money. Thankfully, the rise of hybrid
> > cars are providing a much needed solution to these problems and more.
> > The popularity of hybrid cars continue to grow as more people begin to
> > realize the many advantages that hybrid cars hold over conventional
> > ones.
> > So, what is a hybrid car and how does it work?
> > As the name suggests, hybrid cars utilizes a combination of different
> > technologies. Hybrid cars use an electric propulsion system together
> > with of a gas propulsion system to great effect....
>
> >http://groups.google.com/group/waterforfueld
>
> I dented my new Honda. backed into a short post at 2 mph. ?$3000 in
> damages. ?"Bumper" and tail light assembly. ?$655 in parts, the rest in
> ? labor. ?But i digress . . .
>
> I got a Toyota Pruis for a loan car. ?I hadn't considered a hybrid when
> I bought my car. ?I would not consider anything else now.
>
> What a wonderful car.
>
> Wikipedia has a great article, well worth the
> read:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

We've had a Lexus 400H for two years now.

Spectacular technology, but most of the benefit from a fuel economy
standpoint is realized around town. (Where my wide does most of her
driving, so that's OK). The unappreciated upside; when you hit the
throttle hard the thing runs like a raped ape. Much, much, better
acceleration than the standard V6 (which we test drove in the
Highlander package).

Real life economy is probably about 8 mpg better than straight gas in
town and 4-5 better than straight gas on the highway. We usually
achieve about 24 mpg real life average, with most of that in stop and
start city traffic. Not bad for a medium size, comfortable vehicle.
===========================

Hybrids are those who want to *feel good* and proclaim to the world that
they own one and are doing their part in conserving energy.........as you
just did...as you will not likely recoup any savings in the long run by
owning one.

It is my understanding that research on those vehicles has shown that their
production results in far more energy use than the production of standard
vehicles.

Until technology improves they are just a trendy thing to buy with no real
impact on operational savings vs initial cost or gross energy consumption
from cradle to grave.
 >> Stay informed about: Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car 

On Feb 11, 10:48 am, "JimH" <as... RemoveThis @nope.com> wrote:

> Hybrids are those who want to *feel good* and proclaim to the world that
> they own one and are doing their part in conserving energy.........as you
> just did...as you will not likely recoup any savings in the long run by
> owning one.

The price of cars like the Prius are becoming more competitive. The
chef at my daughter's school just purchased an 08 for a few bucks less
than I paid for my 06. When the rush was on for them a year and a
half to two years ago, there were significant tax credits, carpool
lane access stickers (in some states), and $3 gas was freaking people
out.

Even at $3 a gallon, the "average driver," someone that drives less
than 20K miles a year, would be hardpressed to recoup the price
difference in gas savings alone in less than 5 or 6 years.

I bought my Prius to replace a Hyundai Sonata when my employment put
me on the road a lot - I put 40K miles on my Prius the first year I
had it with an average fuel economy of 52 mpg. That is twice what the
Sonata got on the highway. At $3 a gallon, this was over $2000 in gas
cost savings in one year. And I was getting... 48¢ a mile from my
employer which I calculated was covering 100% of my ownership costs
for that first year.

What took me to look at the Prius and Honda Civic hybrids was the
carpool lane stickers. They were the only two hybrids that qualified
for them at the time. I was driving driving between Sacramento,
Berkeley and Palo Alto two to three times a week. Being able to use
the HOV lanes was giving me back 3 to 6 hours a week - Time my
employer probably wished I put into productive business time, but I
usually used in the evenings with my wife and 3-year-old daughter.

I didn't get the entire tax credit (over $3000) due to my income and a
couple of other credits I was taking, but it was still about $1600 off
my 2006 tax bill.

All in all, I have no regrets over buying a Prius and found it to be
cost effective based on my driving needs.

I will say that the 60mpg city claim is bunk. What city that it, I
don't know. I had one trip of about 150 miles where I got 62mpg, but
that included hours of grinding slow freeway commuting - stop and go
at speeds under 30mph. Like the EPA rating actually showed on the
Civic hybrid, my Prius gets 48 to 53 mpg whether in town or on the
highway.

Outside of great fuel efficiency, the Prius just a compact car.
Nothing special about the handling. It is not near as quiet on the
highway as our Chrysler. I picked the Prius over the Honda because of
utility; the Prius' hatchback and fold down rear seat provides a lot
more cargo flexibility. And the Prius accelerates better than the
Civic - at least I felt Prius out performed the Civic on test drives.
 >> Stay informed about: Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car 

On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:48:38 -0500, "JimH" <askme.DeleteThis@nope.com> wrote:

>
>"Chuck Gould" <chuckgould.chuck.DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:ddde1571-ea8f-467e-bd8f-2bbaecf7909e@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>On Feb 9, 9:35?am, Jim <j....DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> ellis gibb wrote:
>> > Utilizing the latest in advanced technology, hybrid cars might just
>> > provide a glimpse into the future of automobiles. Hybrid cars sport
>> > sleek and futuristic looks, but these cars aren't just for show. These
>> > scientific marvels make use of both electric and gas power to make for
>> > a cleaner, more cost efficient, and environmentally friendlier car.
>> > As the world's supply of oil inevitably runs out and the prices of
>> > gasoline continue to skyrocket to staggering new heights, more and
>> > more people have begun to look for an alternative way to power their
>> > cars, as well as to save some money. Thankfully, the rise of hybrid
>> > cars are providing a much needed solution to these problems and more.
>> > The popularity of hybrid cars continue to grow as more people begin to
>> > realize the many advantages that hybrid cars hold over conventional
>> > ones.
>> > So, what is a hybrid car and how does it work?
>> > As the name suggests, hybrid cars utilizes a combination of different
>> > technologies. Hybrid cars use an electric propulsion system together
>> > with of a gas propulsion system to great effect....
>>
>> >http://groups.google.com/group/waterforfueld
>>
>> I dented my new Honda. backed into a short post at 2 mph. ?$3000 in
>> damages. ?"Bumper" and tail light assembly. ?$655 in parts, the rest in
>> ? labor. ?But i digress . . .
>>
>> I got a Toyota Pruis for a loan car. ?I hadn't considered a hybrid when
>> I bought my car. ?I would not consider anything else now.
>>
>> What a wonderful car.
>>
>> Wikipedia has a great article, well worth the
>> read:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>We've had a Lexus 400H for two years now.
>
>Spectacular technology, but most of the benefit from a fuel economy
>standpoint is realized around town. (Where my wide does most of her
>driving, so that's OK). The unappreciated upside; when you hit the
>throttle hard the thing runs like a raped ape. Much, much, better
>acceleration than the standard V6 (which we test drove in the
>Highlander package).
>
>Real life economy is probably about 8 mpg better than straight gas in
>town and 4-5 better than straight gas on the highway. We usually
>achieve about 24 mpg real life average, with most of that in stop and
>start city traffic. Not bad for a medium size, comfortable vehicle.
>===========================
>
>Hybrids are those who want to *feel good* and proclaim to the world that
>they own one and are doing their part in conserving energy.........as you
>just did...as you will not likely recoup any savings in the long run by
>owning one.
>
>It is my understanding that research on those vehicles has shown that their
>production results in far more energy use than the production of standard
>vehicles.
>
>Until technology improves they are just a trendy thing to buy with no real
>impact on operational savings vs initial cost or gross energy consumption
>from cradle to grave.
>

Envy's a bitch, ain't it?
--
John H
 >> Stay informed about: Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car 

JimH wrote:
..
>
> Real life economy is probably about 8 mpg better than straight gas in
> town and 4-5 better than straight gas on the highway. We usually
> achieve about 24 mpg real life average, with most of that in stop and
> start city traffic. Not bad for a medium size, comfortable vehicle.
> ===========================
>
> Hybrids are those who want to *feel good* and proclaim to the world that
> they own one and are doing their part in conserving energy.........as you
> just did...as you will not likely recoup any savings in the long run by
> owning one.

What is the problem with saying "I want to proclaim to the world I am
for new techlogy that will help conserve energy" even if you will not
recoup your initial investment?

JimH, you always seem to be jealous of the toys of others.
 >> Stay informed about: Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car 

Curtis CCR wrote:
>> It is my understanding that research on those vehicles has shown that their
>> production results in far more energy use than the production of standard
>> vehicles.
>
> You must be referring to that silly article that circulated last year
> saying that Hummers were more eco friendly and the real cost of a
> Prius, over its lifespan, was something like $300,000. It was BS.

JimH and silly go hand in hand. While the actually financial pay back
on a hybrid will vary based upon the number of miles driven, the federal
and state tax credits allowed, possible lower insurance rates based upon
your carrier. The key to finding ways to lower our dependence on
foreign oil and utilizing alternative energy sources are by trying
numerous alternatives in the real world.

JimH's real problem is that Chuck drives a Lexus, he is jealous of
other's success.
 >> Stay informed about: Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car 

Curtis CCR wrote:
> On Feb 11, 10:48 am, "JimH" <as....TakeThisOut@nope.com> wrote:
>
>> Hybrids are those who want to *feel good* and proclaim to the world that
>> they own one and are doing their part in conserving energy.........as you
>> just did...as you will not likely recoup any savings in the long run by
>> owning one.
>
> The price of cars like the Prius are becoming more competitive. The
> chef at my daughter's school just purchased an 08 for a few bucks less
> than I paid for my 06.

I liked to know what school you daughter goes to. We only had lunchroom
ladies, no chef's allowed.
 >> Stay informed about: Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car 

LoogyPicker RemoveThis @gmail.com wrote:
> On Feb 11, 1:48 pm, "JimH" <as... RemoveThis @nope.com> wrote:
>> "Chuck Gould" <chuckgould.ch... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:ddde1571-ea8f-467e-bd8f-2bbaecf7909e@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> On Feb 9, 9:35?am, Jim <j... RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> ellis gibb wrote:
>>>> Utilizing the latest in advanced technology, hybrid cars might just
>>>> provide a glimpse into the future of automobiles. Hybrid cars sport
>>>> sleek and futuristic looks, but these cars aren't just for show. These
>>>> scientific marvels make use of both electric and gas power to make for
>>>> a cleaner, more cost efficient, and environmentally friendlier car.
>>>> As the world's supply of oil inevitably runs out and the prices of
>>>> gasoline continue to skyrocket to staggering new heights, more and
>>>> more people have begun to look for an alternative way to power their
>>>> cars, as well as to save some money. Thankfully, the rise of hybrid
>>>> cars are providing a much needed solution to these problems and more.
>>>> The popularity of hybrid cars continue to grow as more people begin to
>>>> realize the many advantages that hybrid cars hold over conventional
>>>> ones.
>>>> So, what is a hybrid car and how does it work?
>>>> As the name suggests, hybrid cars utilizes a combination of different
>>>> technologies. Hybrid cars use an electric propulsion system together
>>>> with of a gas propulsion system to great effect....
>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/waterforfueld
>>> I dented my new Honda. backed into a short post at 2 mph. ?$3000 in
>>> damages. ?"Bumper" and tail light assembly. ?$655 in parts, the rest in
>>> ? labor. ?But i digress . . .
>>> I got a Toyota Pruis for a loan car. ?I hadn't considered a hybrid when
>>> I bought my car. ?I would not consider anything else now.
>>> What a wonderful car.
>>> Wikipedia has a great article, well worth the
>>> read:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius-Hide quoted text -
>>> - Show quoted text -
>> We've had a Lexus 400H for two years now.
>>
>> Spectacular technology, but most of the benefit from a fuel economy
>> standpoint is realized around town. (Where my wide does most of her
>> driving, so that's OK). The unappreciated upside; when you hit the
>> throttle hard the thing runs like a raped ape. Much, much, better
>> acceleration than the standard V6 (which we test drove in the
>> Highlander package).
>>
>> Real life economy is probably about 8 mpg better than straight gas in
>> town and 4-5 better than straight gas on the highway. We usually
>> achieve about 24 mpg real life average, with most of that in stop and
>> start city traffic. Not bad for a medium size, comfortable vehicle.
>> ===========================
>>
>> Hybrids are those who want to *feel good* and proclaim to the world that
>> they own one and are doing their part in conserving energy.........as you
>> just did...as you will not likely recoup any savings in the long run by
>> owning one.
>>
>> It is my understanding that research on those vehicles has shown that their
>> production results in far more energy use than the production of standard
>> vehicles.
>>
> Your understanding is bullshit then.
>

What is the cost of producing a hybrid's battery?
 >> Stay informed about: Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car 

Curtis CCR wrote:
>> It is my understanding that research on those vehicles has shown that their
>> production results in far more energy use than the production of standard
>> vehicles.
>
> You must be referring to that silly article that circulated last year
> saying that Hummers were more eco friendly and the real cost of a
> Prius, over its lifespan, was something like $300,000. It was BS.

Where do the chemicals that comprise the battery cells some from and how
do they get into the battery cell? What is the effect, cost, of the
mining of the component chemicals? What is the effect, cost, of the
materials used and needing disposal during the battery manufacturing
process?

> I am not saying that people shouldn't drive Hummers - I am a Prius
> owner that also drives a American made "crossover vehicle" that
> typically gets less than 20mpg. You want to drive a Hummer? Fine
> with me! I can't tow a boat with my Prius.

What is the cost of a new battery pack for your Prius?
 >> Stay informed about: Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car 

On Feb 11, 4:49 pm, BAR <Screw....TakeThisOut@Your.Place> wrote:
> Curtis CCR wrote:
> >> It is my understanding that research on those vehicles has shown that their
> >> production results in far more energy use than the production of standard
> >> vehicles.
>
> > You must be referring to that silly article that circulated last year
> > saying that Hummers were more eco friendly and the real cost of a
> > Prius, over its lifespan, was something like $300,000. It was BS.
>
> Where do the chemicals that comprise the battery cells some from and how
> do they get into the battery cell? What is the effect, cost, of the
> mining of the component chemicals? What is the effect, cost, of the
> materials used and needing disposal during the battery manufacturing
> process?

I don't know, but batteries are recyclable. There are NiMH batteries,
the kind that have been used in portable electronics devices for
years. Likewise NiCad has been around for decades and are used in
large applications. I want to know who is paying the $300,000 in
total cost for my Prius. I'd like to thank them.


>
> > I am not saying that people shouldn't drive Hummers - I am a Prius
> > owner that also drives a American made "crossover vehicle" that
> > typically gets less than 20mpg. You want to drive a Hummer? Fine
> > with me! I can't tow a boat with my Prius.
>
> What is the cost of a new battery pack for your Prius?

I honestly don't know. There are 20something individual cells that
make of the battery string and I have never heard of anyone having to
replace them all. Since in CA they are warranted for 150,000 miles it
is not a common customer paid repair.
 >> Stay informed about: Take a Ride to the Future In A Hybrid Car