Rolling, How many know how.

I would have to agree. Skulling for support with your body to the ear
in the water is great for impressing girls. It also defines where you
can put the boat on that plane. ( everywhere ) . Practically though, it
has no real purpose. It does make side surfing with a high brace seem
easy.
I have some wild roll stories but a good roll is what makes a confident
brace possible in my mind.
There is an old guy here that can roll a canoe. It is a cool but
useless trick. It comes up full of water.
Alex
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling, How many know how. 

<mcgrueralarms RemoveThis @nf.aibn.com> wrote in message
news:1124925351.489380.250230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Here in Newfoundland Canada most hard core paddlers can roll a boat but
> most paddlers are not hard core. I would guess that only 10% of sea
> kayakers here have a roll; any roll!!!.
> We see a bomb proof roll as 10 or 12 consecutive rolls with no
> failures. I see it as a surprise upset in frigid water and in an
> exceptional case done with the spare paddle.
> I have never gone over by accident and been preset for a roll.
> What are your thoughts?

Until you have it you don't know if it will work.

On flat water I can roll until I'm knackered - usually. left, right, half
rolls. If I can hold my breathe long enough I can make an awkward capsize,
position the blade and roll up. I'm not the best, but I can do it. When I
cock it up trying something stupid I can usually roll back up.

However, I have only once capsized on white water. I was in an eddy along
with about five others. the eddy current pushed us up the eddy, and into an
overhanging tree. I have never capsized delibaretaly as fast as that
happened, and there was no room to use the paddle to roll, and doing an
eskomo off the side of another boat would have brought them in too - so I
came out.

On white water I have so far managed to avoid capsize through being careful
and using high brace supports - or punting to stay upright. It is only a
matter of time before I do go over in the stream though, and until it
happens I won't know if I can do it or not. I'm afraid that rolling on
white water when there may be some skull crushing rock at just the right
depth is not something I am keen to practice Though perhaps I should.

Ewan Scott
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling, How many know how. 

If the examiner is female my point is made.
Just kidding .
That is an exercise i do at the beginning of most trips just to warm up
and get the feel of the water and my boat with todays load.

As for my standards, as far as I am concerned : If you are upright,
breathing air and in the seat it was a successfull roll.
I don't care if there are a dozen attempts, three splash saves and
intervention from the Holy Gohst, a roll is successfull when you are
upright and in the boat.
The extended paddle ( pawata ) roll is one of my favourites to teach
people. It is successful almost every time even with poor form and
technique. Success builds success.
People successfull with this roll on their strong side will go off side
then do C to C 's Skulling , Screw , etc. some go on to do storm and
every other type of combat roll i can think of.

That said, outside of the close company I keep, most paddlers I see on
the water rent boats and have little idea of self rescue and few know
how to roll. Most of my paddling friends have good skill levels but
there are a lot of occasional paddlers out there and some solid skilled
paddlers that don't have a clue on how to roll.
Alex McGruer
..
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<mcgrueralarms DeleteThis @nf.aibn.com> wrote in message
news:1124975756.379929.27240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I would have to agree. Skulling for support with your body to the ear
> in the water is great for impressing girls. It also defines where you
> can put the boat on that plane. ( everywhere ) . Practically though, it
> has no real purpose. It does make side surfing with a high brace seem
> easy.

Sculling from that position and being able to recover from that position is
a big help in rolling. In fact some of my students have realised that in
carrying out a roll, if they can get the boat to that sculling position, a
couple of scull strokes can get them up. On a recent test one of them got
his paddle all wrong and ended up having run out of downward sweep and was
still upside down. he sculled a couple of times and flicked up. The examiner
questioned it, but nonetheless he had rolled using a sculling stroke.

Ewan Scott
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling, How many know how. 

mcgrueralarms.DeleteThis@nf.aibn.com wrote:

> There is an old guy here that can roll a canoe. It is a cool but
> useless trick. It comes up full of water.

Canoes are available that have spray decks and don't fill up with
water. Whitewater C1s being the most obvious examples.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch.DeleteThis@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling, How many know how. 

He is an old guy and i doubt he could pull a fully bouyant open
(Canadian) canoe over.
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling, How many know how. 

To expand on that, The guy that rolled a canoe here was an ol fellow ,
a true enthusiast. It was a 16 foot boat , nothing fancy he leaned it
till it took on wate and dunped over then he did a skulling screw type
roll that brought it up. He is in his sixties ( perhaps older ).
This was not a Clipper or one of the river boats with all the boyancy.
He was braced under a thwart. It was wild.
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling, How many know how. 

My Capella and Explorer roll well. I have a WS Sealution that is a bit
tougher to bring up . The Aquaterra Chinook's we use are about the
same.
The Greenland / Broitish boats have a nice line for rolling up.
I think you have it right, if it is hard to put it over it is hard to
bring it back.
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling, How many know how. 

Just catching up after doing this weeks night shifts. Here's that link again
foranyone who missed it.
http://www.useakayak.org/reflec_rolling_5_02.html

I seem to remember being taught to roll a few years back when I did that
kayaking course in the pool. When I mentioned the local canoe/kayak club to
my friend he said that he might join in order to do the pool sessions over
the winter. He has been sea kayaking for two years now and cannot roll. I
was surprised by this.
Now for the science bit. Which type of kayak is the easiest to roll ?
--
Muzz
send mail to muzzmackay@'7thletterof thealphabet'mail.com
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling, How many know how. 

Muzz wrote:

> Now for the science bit. Which type of kayak is the easiest to roll ?

IM(not colossal)E the ones that are easiest to roll up are the ones that
are easiest to roll down to start with... Wider boats tend to be more
stable as you have to tip them over further to pass the Point Of No
Return, but once they do go then the same properties that kept them the
right way up before now help to keep them upside down...

Beyond that, boats with an effective brace point inside are, all other
things being equal, easier to roll up. I had quite a bit of trouble
rolling a Feathercarft because I couldn't brace myself well in it, and
the seat would move!

One of the easiest sea boat I've found to roll so far is the Valley
Anasacuta. It's certainly much easier to bring up than my Selkie, but
the Selkie is a very broad craft and much more stable to start with.
AIUI there was a flat rear deck version made especially for surf rescue.
The Anas is also easier to bring up than my river/surf boat, a Whip-It
where the hard edge on the hull makes it quite a bit harder than a BAT
to roll.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.clinch.RemoveThis@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling, How many know how. 

"Muzz" <spamfrog.TakeThisOut@swanlake.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:den41a$gn3$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...

> Now for the science bit. Which type of kayak is the easiest to roll ?
>

The easiest boat to roll is one that you fit in properly. Eg, I cannot roll
a polo boat. BUT this is because I fall out as soon as I go upside down
because it is not fitted to me and I can't reach the footpegs. I have
however rolled my I:3 (once, fluke, don't count it as being able to roll),
which is padded out around my hips and where I can press against the
footrest and the thigh braces.

Charlie.
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling, How many know how. 

A Ha . Truth at last.
For the folks that paddle routinely on the sea and more for those
involved in white water I think most likely have some semblance of a
roll. BCU 3 star insists only on a knowledge of how a roll works but
does not go far past that and you don't need to complete an actual
roll. CRCA 1 in Canada is the same. Most paddlers I am sure don't go
far past this level.
Of the people I routinely paddle with most has a passable roll but the
folks I paddle with at night and on drop of the hat trips are not
average.
While white water is very different, I suspect the number of folks with
a roll is less than we think.
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling, How many know how. 

I'm not a hard core paddler (or hard core anything else) but I can easily
manage the first phase of a roll anytime!

Keith

<mcgrueralarms RemoveThis @nf.aibn.com> wrote in message
news:1124925351.489380.250230@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Here in Newfoundland Canada most hard core paddlers can roll a boat but
> most paddlers are not hard core. I would guess that only 10% of sea
> kayakers here have a roll; any roll!!!.
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling, How many know how.