Rolling a sea-kayak with HIGH rear deck?

On Mar 29, 12:24 pm, Jeff....RemoveThis@hotmail.com wrote:
> I have a woodstrip racing sea kayak patterned after the Seda Glider.
> It has a really high back deck (cockpit combing). I can't lean back
> hardly at all in it. I've been trying to learn how to roll it. So far,
> so shaky. I wish I could get my C of G lower as my torso comes out of
> the water but due to the rear deck my CoG is working against me at its
> max leverage. Rats. Is there another kind of roll out there that might
> be EASY with a high rear deck? Any links to pics, info? Maybe I could
> somehow reverse my sweep and tuck back forward as I come up? Thanks! --
> JP outyourbackdoor.com

It might be worthwhile checking out the videos at
http://www.exchile.com/KayakSchoolRollIdentifier.htm.
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling a sea-kayak with HIGH rear deck? 

unclefuzzy wrote:
> On Mar 29, 12:24 pm, Jeff....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com wrote:
>> I have a woodstrip racing sea kayak patterned after the Seda Glider.
>> It has a really high back deck (cockpit combing). I can't lean back
>> hardly at all in it. I've been trying to learn how to roll it. So far,
>> so shaky. I wish I could get my C of G lower as my torso comes out of
>> the water but due to the rear deck my CoG is working against me at its
>> max leverage. Rats. Is there another kind of roll out there that might
>> be EASY with a high rear deck? Any links to pics, info? Maybe I could
>> somehow reverse my sweep and tuck back forward as I come up? Thanks! --
>> JP outyourbackdoor.com
>
> It might be worthwhile checking out the videos at
> http://www.exchile.com/KayakSchoolRollIdentifier.htm.
>
>
Hi Unclefuzy,

Great videos by Chris Spelius showing all types of rolls including
C-to-C which can be done in a high rear deck or seat, which many sea
kayaks have. Thanks for link.

Al K
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling a sea-kayak with HIGH rear deck? 

Thanks for the tips!

I've been looking at some of these online roll-vid's and info. I can't
quite follow all the text how-to yet, with the terms. The vid's help.

I'm a bit concerned that examples use whitewater boats. My boat has a
round hull and high sides, too.

I do have best luck with the "take head out of water last" idea. I'll
just keep trying to put all the basics together. And I'll study C-C
more and study front deck roll, too.

I'll fiddle with dryland practice as well.

--JP
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling a sea-kayak with HIGH rear deck? 

Al K wrote:
> unclefuzzy wrote:
>> On Mar 29, 12:24 pm, Jeff....DeleteThis@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> I have a woodstrip racing sea kayak patterned after the Seda Glider.
>>> It has a really high back deck (cockpit combing). I can't lean back
>>> hardly at all in it. I've been trying to learn how to roll it. So far,
>>> so shaky. I wish I could get my C of G lower as my torso comes out of
>>> the water but due to the rear deck my CoG is working against me at its
>>> max leverage. Rats. Is there another kind of roll out there that might
>>> be EASY with a high rear deck? Any links to pics, info? Maybe I could
>>> somehow reverse my sweep and tuck back forward as I come up? Thanks! --
>>> JP outyourbackdoor.com
>>
>> It might be worthwhile checking out the videos at
>> http://www.exchile.com/KayakSchoolRollIdentifier.htm.
>>
>>
> Hi Unclefuzy,
>
> Great videos by Chris Spelius showing all types of rolls including
> C-to-C which can be done in a high rear deck or seat, which many sea
> kayaks have. Thanks for link.

Although I'm not a fan of the C-to-C roll, in this case, it's probably
your best bet. The keys to it are the timing of the hip snap and making
sure that your head comes up last.
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling a sea-kayak with HIGH rear deck? 

Brian Nystrom wrote:
> Al K wrote:
>> unclefuzzy wrote:
>>> On Mar 29, 12:24 pm, Jeff....DeleteThis@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> I have a woodstrip racing sea kayak patterned after the Seda Glider.
>>>> It has a really high back deck (cockpit combing). I can't lean back
>>>> hardly at all in it. I've been trying to learn how to roll it. So far,
>>>> so shaky. I wish I could get my C of G lower as my torso comes out of
>>>> the water but due to the rear deck my CoG is working against me at its
>>>> max leverage. Rats. Is there another kind of roll out there that might
>>>> be EASY with a high rear deck? Any links to pics, info? Maybe I could
>>>> somehow reverse my sweep and tuck back forward as I come up? Thanks! --
>>>> JP outyourbackdoor.com
>>>
>>> It might be worthwhile checking out the videos at
>>> http://www.exchile.com/KayakSchoolRollIdentifier.htm.
>>>
>>>
>> Hi Unclefuzy,
>>
>> Great videos by Chris Spelius showing all types of rolls including
>> C-to-C which can be done in a high rear deck or seat, which many sea
>> kayaks have. Thanks for link.
>
> Although I'm not a fan of the C-to-C roll, in this case, it's probably
> your best bet. The keys to it are the timing of the hip snap and making
> sure that your head comes up last.
Hi Brian,

Another roll not requiring going to the back deck is the front deck
roll. In the videos, the front deck roll is shown in the Hybrid Roll
video. (These videos are easily viewed using the YouTube option if you
have a high-speed connection.) Also a hybrid roll where you do not go
way back will work on high back kayaks.

Al K
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling a sea-kayak with HIGH rear deck? 

John Fereira wrote:
> JeffOYB.RemoveThis@hotmail.com wrote in news:1175259291.833257.163650
> @l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Thanks for the tips!
> >
> > I've been looking at some of these online roll-vid's and info. I can't
> > quite follow all the text how-to yet, with the terms. The vid's help.
> >
> > I'm a bit concerned that examples use whitewater boats. My boat has a
> > round hull and high sides, too.
>
> What kind of boat are you talking about.

I detailed the boat in the first post but maybe folks aren't familiar
with it. It's a narrow, round hull racing sea kayak---patterened after
a Seda Glider. 19 feet long, like about 20" wide. Totally round hull.

[ ]
> A C-C will be easier to learn than a front deck roll. Start first by using
> someone elses boat or the side of a pool to practice a hip snap, that is,
> learn how to rotate the boat under you before you bring your head out of the
> water.

I can do that already to a strong extent but my whole show hasn't come
together yet. I think it partly relates to having such high sides and
rear and a hull that doesn't "flop" back upright.

I think I've been using the C-C. I'll keep trying---dryland
especially.

--JP
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling a sea-kayak with HIGH rear deck? 

JeffOYB.DeleteThis@hotmail.com wrote in news:1175259291.833257.163650
@l77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:

> Thanks for the tips!
>
> I've been looking at some of these online roll-vid's and info. I can't
> quite follow all the text how-to yet, with the terms. The vid's help.
>
> I'm a bit concerned that examples use whitewater boats. My boat has a
> round hull and high sides, too.

What kind of boat are you talking about. Some whitewater boats can be more
forgiving of poor technique but with the right technique you should be able
to learn to roll your boat. You'll often see rolling videos in ww boats
because their easier to get into a small pool where rolling "pool sessions"
often take place. You should be more concerned that those demonstrating the
rolls already know how to roll and can get away with marginal technique
because they can quickly compensate and produce a successful roll. In the
hybrid videos they briefly mention a "sweep to C" but the examples don't
really demonstrate it well. I find that a "sweep to C" roll works well if
when rolling a boat with a high rear deck.
>
> I do have best luck with the "take head out of water last" idea. I'll
> just keep trying to put all the basics together. And I'll study C-C
> more and study front deck roll, too.

A C-C will be easier to learn than a front deck roll. Start first by using
someone elses boat or the side of a pool to practice a hip snap, that is,
learn how to rotate the boat under you before you bring your head out of the
water.
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling a sea-kayak with HIGH rear deck? 

Buy Kent Ford's video _The Kayak Roll_. He shows a sweep roll that you
end up sitting mostly upright, rotated toward the working blade. It
should work very well with your boat. There's noting critical about
leaning back if you can accomplish the same ting without it. It's also
better than the C-to-C.

Steve

JeffOYB.RemoveThis@hotmail.com wrote:
> I have a woodstrip racing sea kayak patterned after the Seda Glider.
> It has a really high back deck (cockpit combing). I can't lean back
> hardly at all in it. I've been trying to learn how to roll it. So far,
> so shaky. I wish I could get my C of G lower as my torso comes out of
> the water but due to the rear deck my CoG is working against me at its
> max leverage. Rats. Is there another kind of roll out there that might
> be EASY with a high rear deck? Any links to pics, info? Maybe I could
> somehow reverse my sweep and tuck back forward as I come up? Thanks! --
> JP outyourbackdoor.com
>
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling a sea-kayak with HIGH rear deck? 

On Mar 29, 11:24 am, Jeff... DeleteThis @hotmail.com wrote:
> I have a woodstrip racing sea kayak patterned after the Seda Glider.
> It has a really high back deck (cockpit combing). I can't lean back
> hardly at all in it. I've been trying to learn how to roll it. So far,
> so shaky. I wish I could get my C of G lower as my torso comes out of
> the water but due to the rear deck my CoG is working against me at its
> max leverage. Rats. Is there another kind of roll out there that might
> be EASY with a high rear deck? Any links to pics, info? Maybe I could
> somehow reverse my sweep and tuck back forward as I come up? Thanks! --
> JP outyourbackdoor.com

Laying back is a bad habit if you ever plan to do any ww. I would say
just practice your roll and if necessary learn to end a failed roll
with a skull.
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling a sea-kayak with HIGH rear deck? 

On Apr 1, 3:00 pm, Brian Nystrom <brian.nyst....DeleteThis@verizon.net> wrote:
> Davej wrote:
> > Laying back is a bad habit if you ever plan to do any ww.
>
> That's an old myth that needs to die. If you look at the mechanics of
> ANY layback roll, there is NEVER a point where you're on the aft deck
> facing downward. By the time you actually lay back, you're almost out of
> the water. The layback is strictly to get your center of gravity lower,
> making it easier to finish the roll. The most dangerous roll is the
> one that fails and dumps you back into the water. Paddlers should use
> the roll they're most proficient at.

In ww you don't want your face exposed to impact with rocks. Laying
back exposes your face if the roll fails or if the boat is immediately
flipped again. The most dangerous roll is the one that gets you
injured so that you panic.
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling a sea-kayak with HIGH rear deck? 

Davej wrote:

> Laying back is a bad habit if you ever plan to do any ww.
That's an old myth that needs to die. If you look at the mechanics of
ANY layback roll, there is NEVER a point where you're on the aft deck
facing downward. By the time you actually lay back, you're almost out of
the water. The layback is strictly to get your center of gravity lower,
making it easier to finish the roll. The most dangerous roll is the
one that fails and dumps you back into the water. Paddlers should use
the roll they're most proficient at.
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling a sea-kayak with HIGH rear deck? 

>> Davej wrote:

>
> In ww you don't want your face exposed to impact with rocks. Laying
> back exposes your face if the roll fails or if the boat is immediately
> flipped again. The most dangerous roll is the one that gets you
> injured so that you panic.
>

From none other than Eric Jackson. Are you telling HIM that he does not
know the correct WW roll?

"Rolling where you come up on the back deck is much easier and more likely
to be successful than a roll on your front deck. (no space for discussion on
this subject here, sorry). When you come up on your back deck you are in a
good position to do an additional brace to keep you up or finish the roll
off. When forward, you are much more likely to fall back in the water."

http://www.jacksonkayak.com/techniquesjk/technique.cfm?technique=rolling

Tim McTeague
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling a sea-kayak with HIGH rear deck? 

Davej wrote:
[ ]
> Laying back is a bad habit if you ever plan to do any ww.

I don't.

Sea kayak.

I'm just trying to learn how to roll my racy, roundy, hard-to-roll sea
kayak that constrains much usual body action (and hull behavior)
that's helpful for rolling (high sides, high back, narrow, round
hull).

But never say never! If I ever moved to a WW river/area, who knows.

--JP
 >> Stay informed about: Rolling a sea-kayak with HIGH rear deck?