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J. Allan

External


Since: Apr 11, 2004
Posts: 11



(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 11:04 pm
Post subject: Racing Rules/Tactics - Windward Leeward Course with a Leewar
Archived from groups: uk>rec>sailing, others (more info?)
I've just received a Sailing Instruction with the following course
instruction

10.1 The diagram below shows the approximate course configuration. Mark
1 shall be to windward of Marks 3A/3B. Mark 2 shall be laid as a
distance mark and shall be approximately 50 m from Mark 1. Marks 3A/3B
shall be approximately 50m to windward of the Start/Finish Line. The
approximate Magnetic Compass Bearing from the Start/Finish Line to Mark
1 may be displayed on the Race Committee Vessel.



MARK 1
MARK 2










MARK 3A MARK
3B




Start/Finish Line End Buoy
RC Vessel


10.2 The Course descriptions are :
? One Lap - indicated by Numeral Pennant 1.
START - 1 - 2 - FINISH
? Two Laps - indicated by Numeral Pennant 2.
START - 1 - 2 - 3A/3B - 1 - 2 - FINISH
? Three Laps - indicated by Numeral Pennant 3.
START - 1 - 2 - 3A/3B - 1 - 2 - 3A/3B - 1 - 2 - FINISH
? Four Laps - indicated by Numeral Pennant 4.
START - 1 - 2 - 3A/3B - 1 - 2 - 3A/3B - 1 - 2 - 3A/3B - 1 - 2 -
FINISH

10.3 Marks 1 and 2 shall be left to PORT.

10.4 Marks 3A/3B are a gate. When a boat passes through the gate it
must either leave Mark 3A to STARBOARD or Mark 3B to PORT.


I can read and understand the course OK, what I need some help with is,
all things being equal, with no interboat considerations, how to go
about making the choice between the port and starboard roundings out of
the leeward gate.

I can see that if the wind has come left of the course, then the
Starboard rounding round Mark 3A seems to be favoured because it will
give a long gaining tack to the windward mark, and that if the wind has
come right, the port rounding round Mark 3B will be favoured with the
added advantage that the gaining board will be on starboard.

What are the considerations in choosing which rounding to take out of
the gate?

John

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Dennis Pogson

External


Since: May 11, 2004
Posts: 1



(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 11:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Racing Rules/Tactics - Windward Leeward Course with a Le [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
J. Allan wrote:
 > I've just received a Sailing Instruction with the following course
 > instruction
 >
 > 10.1 The diagram below shows the approximate course configuration.
 > Mark 1 shall be to windward of Marks 3A/3B. Mark 2 shall be laid as a
 > distance mark and shall be approximately 50 m from Mark 1. Marks 3A/3B
 > shall be approximately 50m to windward of the Start/Finish Line. The
 > approximate Magnetic Compass Bearing from the Start/Finish Line to
 > Mark 1 may be displayed on the Race Committee Vessel.
 >
 >
 >
 > MARK 1
 > MARK 2
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > MARK 3A MARK
 > 3B
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > Start/Finish Line End Buoy
 > RC Vessel
 >
 >
 > 10.2 The Course descriptions are :
 > ? One Lap - indicated by Numeral Pennant 1.
 > START - 1 - 2 - FINISH
 > ? Two Laps - indicated by Numeral Pennant 2.
 > START - 1 - 2 - 3A/3B - 1 - 2 - FINISH
 > ? Three Laps - indicated by Numeral Pennant 3.
 > START - 1 - 2 - 3A/3B - 1 - 2 - 3A/3B - 1 - 2 - FINISH
 > ? Four Laps - indicated by Numeral Pennant 4.
 > START - 1 - 2 - 3A/3B - 1 - 2 - 3A/3B - 1 - 2 - 3A/3B - 1 - 2 -
 > FINISH
 >
 > 10.3 Marks 1 and 2 shall be left to PORT.
 >
 > 10.4 Marks 3A/3B are a gate. When a boat passes through the gate it
 > must either leave Mark 3A to STARBOARD or Mark 3B to PORT.
 >
 >
 > I can read and understand the course OK, what I need some help with
 > is, all things being equal, with no interboat considerations, how to
 > go about making the choice between the port and starboard roundings
 > out of the leeward gate.
 >
 > I can see that if the wind has come left of the course, then the
 > Starboard rounding round Mark 3A seems to be favoured because it will
 > give a long gaining tack to the windward mark, and that if the wind
 > has come right, the port rounding round Mark 3B will be favoured with
 > the added advantage that the gaining board will be on starboard.
 >
 > What are the considerations in choosing which rounding to take out of
 > the gate?
 >
 > John

Passing through the gate you will comply with 10.4 no matter which way you
turn, therefore I don't see that the right side or left side being part of
the course directions. Surely it is up to you to choose the favoured side?
Remove "nospam" from return address.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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Edward Fryer1

External


Since: May 11, 2004
Posts: 2



(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 11:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Racing Rules/Tactics - Windward Leeward Course with a Le [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
"J. Allan" <allanj DeleteThis @s054.aone.net.au> wrote in message
news:40a0a49b$0$25657$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
 > I've just received a Sailing Instruction with the following course
 > instruction
 >

snip description of windward-leeward course with spacer mark

 > I can read and understand the course OK, what I need some help with is,
 > all things being equal, with no interboat considerations, how to go
 > about making the choice between the port and starboard roundings out of
 > the leeward gate.
 >
 > I can see that if the wind has come left of the course, then the
 > Starboard rounding round Mark 3A seems to be favoured because it will
 > give a long gaining tack to the windward mark, and that if the wind has
 > come right, the port rounding round Mark 3B will be favoured with the
 > added advantage that the gaining board will be on starboard.
 >
 > What are the considerations in choosing which rounding to take out of
 > the gate?
 >
 > John

Well, all sorts of things. As you say, if you want to go right on the next
beat, rounding the port mark makes sense, and vice versa. But there are
other considerations. If the two marks aren't exactly square to the wind -
when you get to them - it makes sense to go round the windward one. Also,
there are tactical considerations - if you find yourself on the outside of a
number of boats which all look like they'll be rounding to starboard, and
you want to go round the same mark, you might find it better to actually
take the other mark to port, and get a much better rounding, and come out of
the mark in clearer wind.

I'm sure there are plenty of others - for instance, the layline to one of
the marks might give you a slightly longer or shorter time in less/more
tide - whichever is appropriate.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Stefan

External


Since: May 11, 2004
Posts: 4



(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 11:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Racing Rules/Tactics - Windward Leeward Course with a Le [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
In article <40a0a49b$0$25657$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>,
allanj.RemoveThis@s054.aone.net.au says...something longer than my newsreader will
copy.

I've used gates in some large fleet events e.g. Cork Week and
championships. In practice it is almost invariably boat-on-boat
considerations which determine which is best to use. The gates are close
enough together that you are not choosing which side of the beat to go.
Therefore I will usually make a late decision based on which side I am
most likely to have an inside overlap. This is based in part on
decisions nearby boats appear to be making. The crew has to be capable
of being very responsive to late calls.

If there really was no other traffic, I'd generally just go for the one
with the simpler rounding e.g. approaching on starboard gybe - go for
starboard gate (looking downwind), or for the nearer one if one were
more upwind that the other (which they often are although they are not
meant to be).

If I had a strong preference to go, say, on the left side of the beat
I'd probably go for the port gate, on the basis that I usually tack
shortly after the rounding to clear my air and would then be heading
left. I always try to decide which side of the beat is preferred as part
of my pre-start routine and then review that decision after the beat
ready for the next. In principle you ought to be able to say things
like: I am headed on port on the run therefore I want to tack early onto
the starboard lift after the mark. In practice I find boat-on-boat
tactics almost invariably take over until you are clear of the mark.

Gates are fun and create more passing opportunities; I wish we had them
more often.
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J. Allan

External


Since: Apr 11, 2004
Posts: 11



(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 2:58 am
Post subject: Re: Racing Rules/Tactics - Windward Leeward Course with a Le [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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J. Allan

External


Since: Apr 11, 2004
Posts: 11



(Msg. 6) Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 3:00 am
Post subject: Re: Racing Rules/Tactics - Windward Leeward Course with a Le [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
"Stefan" <dont RemoveThis @spam.me> wrote in message
news:c7qcc2$ndl$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk
 > In article <40a0a49b$0$25657$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>,
 > allanj RemoveThis @s054.aone.net.au says...something longer than my newsreader
 > will copy.

Thanks Stephan, just the sort of thing I was after.

What a well behaved newsreader you have: is it any good otherwise?

John<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Stefan

External


Since: May 11, 2004
Posts: 4



(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 3:00 am
Post subject: Re: Racing Rules/Tactics - Windward Leeward Course with a Le [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
In article <40a0dc19$0$16964$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>,
allanj.DeleteThis@s054.aone.net.au says...
 > "Stefan" <dont.DeleteThis@spam.me> wrote in message
 > news:c7qcc2$ndl$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk
  > > In article <40a0a49b$0$25657$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>,
  > > allanj.DeleteThis@s054.aone.net.au says...something longer than my newsreader
  > > will copy.
 >
 > Thanks Stephan, just the sort of thing I was after.
 >
 > What a well behaved newsreader you have: is it any good otherwise?
 >

I mostly use Gravity because 1/ it is free and 2/ it lets me block
cross-posters and certain other gentlemen I prefer not to converse with.
It is not vice-free; in particular it often won't connect to my NNTP
server when Outlook Express will. Therefore I sometimes resort to the
latter and the difference in the appearance of my posts is obvious to
the observant. A while ago I looked at a range of free newsreaders for
Windows and none seemed completely satisfactory. Cue a chorus of replies
to the contrary - but please spare us yet another Windows/Linux debate.

What event are you doing, by the way, and what's the boat?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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J Peters

External


Since: May 12, 2004
Posts: 4



(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed May 12, 2004 5:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Racing Rules/Tactics - Windward Leeward Course with a Le [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
"Stefan" <dont.RemoveThis@spam.me> wrote in message
news:c7qcc2$ndl$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
 > In article <40a0a49b$0$25657$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>,
 > allanj.RemoveThis@s054.aone.net.au says...something longer than my newsreader will
 > copy.
 >
 > I've used gates in some large fleet events e.g. Cork Week and
 > championships. In practice it is almost invariably boat-on-boat
 > considerations which determine which is best to use. The gates are close
 > enough together that you are not choosing which side of the beat to go.
 > Therefore I will usually make a late decision based on which side I am
 > most likely to have an inside overlap. This is based in part on
 > decisions nearby boats appear to be making. The crew has to be capable
 > of being very responsive to late calls.
 >
 > If there really was no other traffic, I'd generally just go for the one
 > with the simpler rounding e.g. approaching on starboard gybe - go for
 > starboard gate (looking downwind), or for the nearer one if one were
 > more upwind that the other (which they often are although they are not
 > meant to be).
 >
 > If I had a strong preference to go, say, on the left side of the beat
 > I'd probably go for the port gate, on the basis that I usually tack
 > shortly after the rounding to clear my air and would then be heading
 > left. I always try to decide which side of the beat is preferred as part
 > of my pre-start routine and then review that decision after the beat
 > ready for the next. In principle you ought to be able to say things
 > like: I am headed on port on the run therefore I want to tack early onto
 > the starboard lift after the mark. In practice I find boat-on-boat
 > tactics almost invariably take over until you are clear of the mark.
 >
 > Gates are fun and create more passing opportunities; I wish we had them
 > more often.
 >

Keep in mind its not just the traffic at the mark you need to
worry about. If you're sailing in a large fleet and you're not
near the back, you're going to be stuck on one side of the
course or the other until you clear the rest of the downwind
boats. This could mean that you will be forced to sail on a
headed tack for longer than you'd like.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Stefan Lloyd

External


Since: May 13, 2004
Posts: 3



(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 12:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Racing Rules/Tactics - Windward Leeward Course with a Le [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
"J Peters" <not.for.me.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40a26d9f$0$3039$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
 > Keep in mind its not just the traffic at the mark you need to
 > worry about. If you're sailing in a large fleet and you're not
 > near the back, you're going to be stuck on one side of the
 > course or the other until you clear the rest of the downwind
 > boats. This could mean that you will be forced to sail on a
 > headed tack for longer than you'd like.

If you take the port-hand gate (looking downwind) then if you tack
immediately you
have right-of-way on all downwind boats still approaching the mark, albeit
you will sail through a lot of bad air and may need a strong nerve. However
if you take the starboard-hand gate and tack immediately you will not have
right-of-way on the
majority of downwind boats who will be approaching the mark on starboard.

Is that what you meant?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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