Saguenay and St Lawrence River

André! C'est un copain Américain de Boston. Pas francophone donc!

Hello Richard! How are you?

What Andre said is yes, it is a bad place to be during flow with
Westerly winds and during ebb with Easterlies. What's your friend's
boat? Much like yours? What speed? Where will he start his trip down
there? That's also a place where fog can fall in a few minutes. Going
there without a radar is risky. Yet, if there's no wind and you time
yourself to arrive at slack water, sea can be like mirror. But
normally, a 4 to 6 foot chop is not uncommon, even by good days. We
wanted to go there in 98 and where stopped by the memorable Saguenay
flood. When we passed in front of the Saguenay on the south shore on
our way to Rimouski, two years ago, the sea looked so calm that we
were tempted to change direction and enter the river but didn't.

Your friend will want and need the Atlas of Tidal Currents
(St-Lawrence ISBN 0-660-601168-0) Should be available at your local
map dealer. To work with these, he'll also need the Tidal almanac
Volume 3 2006 St-Lawrence River and Saguenay River. You friend better
also study carefully the Nautical Instruction ATL111 to learn about
the numerous trap along the way, the least of which is the Battures
aux Alouettes, a vast shallow on the west side of the Saguenay's
mouth. Currents can reach 7 knots in either directions in the
Saguenay's mouth.

Wheather can change rapidly and the effects of the landscape on the
wind's force and diretion is great. An essential guide he'll need to
figure when NOT to cruise and where, when to pass to avoid the hard places:

http://www.qc.ec.gc.ca/meteo/secrets_stlaurent/index_e.htm

He can download it in pdf format from that page or browse directly
there over the www. In any situation, your friend should listen to
advice from the locals about the wheather. If they say not to go,
don't go. Last time I didn't, I got myself in 15-18 footers and this,
not even far from Quebec City, at Cape Turmoil (Cap Tourmente), which
I then understod its name.

It is most possible we go there ourselves this summer, either coming
back from Baie-Comeau or as an alternate destination if wheather slows
us too much on our way. A certain thing, we need to test that new
radar in live conditions now and this is why we'll manage, one way or
another, to pass over the Labrador current upwelling. There will fog,
but there will be whales and just his worths every bit of trouble to
get there!!! Yet,

And speaking of whales, cruising there means cruising in marine
wildlife reserve and your friend will get familiar with the Park's
rules there:

http://www.pc.gc.ca/amnc-nmca/qc/saguenay/index_e.asp

That's what comes to mind right now. Will get back to you if I think
of more.

Cheers!

Jean
Moyac1
Montreal, Qc

Merci aussi André! J'vais retenir le conseil sur les vents!

Jean

Andre wrote:
>
> richard wrote:
> > Can anyone tell me about the intersection of the Saguenay River and St
> > Lawrence River. Friends of mine are planning to travel down the
> > Saguenay to the St Lawrence and have heard that it can be quite
> > dangerous when the wind and current are working against each other. It
> > has put quite a damper on their vacation plans. I have never been there
> > but believe that if you go at the right time-right tide and wind-that
> > it should be very doable in their 20-foot powerboat. Has anyone been
> > there, done that who can tell me of their experiences?
> >
> Salut Richard, j'ai un ami qui frequente souvent ce secteur avec son 32
> pieds, et effectivement il me dit que des jours c'est tres dangereux
> meme avec un 32 pieds, lorsque le vent vient de l'ouest et que c'est la
> maree montante, ou que le vent vient de l'est a la maree descendante.
>
> Ton ami a-t-il beaucoup d'experience ?
>
> Andre
 >> Stay informed about: Saguenay and St Lawrence River 

Hello Jean, so nice to hear from you. This is so great as always. It
will be very interesting to check out these sites. these people are
very big on planning and getting all the books etc for every trip they
do. hope all is going well with you and the boat
I will send this all along to them. as the time gets nearer I will see
if he will be around when you are
Thanks
 >> Stay informed about: Saguenay and St Lawrence River 

thanks for your email. my freinds are very experienced boaters and are
very careful. they will learn as much as possible. they have already
studied the tide charts for the days they will be there which is still
5 months away. I have forwarded your post to them and they say thanks
 >> Stay informed about: Saguenay and St Lawrence River 

Jean and Andre
we goggled instant translator and can understand everything you write.

Jean et André nous avons roulé de gros yeux le traducteur immédiat
et pouvons comprendre tout que vous écrivez.

the world just got smaller!
le monde est devenu plus petit juste!
 >> Stay informed about: Saguenay and St Lawrence River 

Good day all:

I also thank Jean for providing that link. I plan on sailing a 26 foot
Tanzer saiboat from Ottawa to Prince Edward Island (a one way trip)
during the summer of 2007. If any of you would care to provide your
thoughts and any advice regarding this venture I would be very happy to
hear from you.
Cheers
Eric
 >> Stay informed about: Saguenay and St Lawrence River 

richard wrote:
> thanks for your email. my freinds are very experienced boaters and are
> very careful. they will learn as much as possible. they have already
> studied the tide charts for the days they will be there which is still
> 5 months away. I have forwarded your post to them and they say thanks
>
No problem Richard, i tought you were french speaking !!!

Bye

Andre
 >> Stay informed about: Saguenay and St Lawrence River 

Eric wrote:
> Good day all:
>
> I also thank Jean for providing that link. I plan on sailing a 26 foot
> Tanzer saiboat from Ottawa to Prince Edward Island (a one way trip)
> during the summer of 2007. If any of you would care to provide your
> thoughts and any advice regarding this venture I would be very happy to
> hear from you.
> Cheers
> Eric
>
Hi Eric, just be carefull after Quebec city, we just explained to
Richard about Saguenay river meeting St-Laurence river, could be dangerous.

Andre
 >> Stay informed about: Saguenay and St Lawrence River 

Well, I go there every years. My trawler likes waves and feels beter
there and, to ease the fall maintenance, I go kill is salt water
whatever grew in fresh!!!

For someone who read well the wheather, listen to the local advices
and have time to "wait the wind", you will be awed by the landscape
and more than often, cruise on a mirror. Now, the Saguenay mouth is
trickier than 99% of the rest of the way and, with so big currents
crossing, it is harder to figure a route where the wind will not be
against current. Because this is the secret of a quiet laurentian
estuary. If wind is against current, I can garranty you the ride of
your life (hopefully not the last! )

Now as I see salted water seeping into your veins, some of you may
take notes here:

Form Montreal to Trois-Rivieres, you may consider navigation being the
same as the fluvial one upstream of the seaway lock. You will begin
though to share the route with bigger ships, not able to do the
seaway. Some of these ocean going container carrier are quite a sight
from close. You'll have no choice either to see them from close in
most places. Keeping track of this traffic on the proper MTC vhf
frequency is helpfull but, unfortunately, 99% of the comunication is
done if French. Yet, if for any safety reason, you need to contact a
ship or the controller, it is not forbidden to pleasure boater to
contact them, they are bilinguals in the end. This part ends the river
estuary in the Lake St-Pierre, where tidals leftover downstreams die
with the widening of the Lake.

From Trois-Riviere to Quebec, you begin to experience the tide and its
strong effects in a narrow waterway. Weak near Trois-Rivieres (well,
I'vew seen current reverse the on August full moons even then) current
hits its strongest in the Richelieu rapids. Here, my sailboating
friend, probably motoring his way down most of the way up 'til now,
will want to be pushed by the 7 knots ebb current and the 2-3 flow
when returning. If you are on a schedule, you won't be really able to
efficiently sail reliably until passed these rapids. There the River
widens much and there is sufficient water to tack on much of its width
and mostly out of the way of the big ones. Tides height increase to
reach 20 feet in Quebec with its maximum being near Ile-aux-Coudres. I
can tell you that you'll manage to go ashore at high tide if it can
wait til then! Else, its pretty good exercise for the legs to climb
the ramps!

Now, you are always in fresh water up til Quebec. Waters begin to be
brackish near Ile-aux Coudres, Tidal heights gets smaller yet current
keeps a strong 4 knots in both flow and ebb and reach 8 knot in the
St-Roch crossing (Traverse St-Roch). Now, you understand that the
stronger the current against wind, the worst waves will be. Brackish
waters end in Tadoussac as the fresh water of the Saguenay dilutes in
the widening estuary. There end the Tidal estuary. Passed Ile Verte,
you enter the Gulf Estuary where the big oceanic currents influence
more the direction of the current and it follows the Labrador current
going West along the Lower North Shore and toward East with the Gaspe
current. But this is another story!

We may see each other Eric as, if all goes well, we intend to do
Gaspesia and if time permits, make and touch and go in Shediac to hear
the sweet Acadian French accent!!!

Keep in touch Eric! Will come back later with other tips on marinas
and attractions along the way, lest of it not being the many whale
species!!! But there are rule there too. More over this later. If
wheather prevents you to enter Tadoussac, you may as well choose to go
to Rimouski instead, for example. I was quite impressed by both marina
and city. Everything's close by foot, provisions, attractions and
their transit system uses taxis with flat rates to reach regional
attractions like the Metis gardens and the Empress of Ireland museum.

Ciao for now though! Gotta go!!!

And Richard, it would be really helpfull to know at least your
friend's boat draft, speed and autonomy so I can help him better with
the marinas along the way. Most of them are silted and many requires
to have sufficient tide to enter. Getting fuel in place you can enter
at all tides require some autonomy!

Jean Dufour

Remove the .remove in my address to contact me privately.

Andre wrote:
>
> Eric wrote:
> > Good day all:
> >
> > I also thank Jean for providing that link. I plan on sailing a 26 foot
> > Tanzer saiboat from Ottawa to Prince Edward Island (a one way trip)
> > during the summer of 2007. If any of you would care to provide your
> > thoughts and any advice regarding this venture I would bae very happy to
> > hear from you.
> > Cheers
> > Eric
> >
> Hi Eric, just be carefull after Quebec city, we just explained to
> Richard about Saguenay river meeting St-Laurence river, could be dangerous.
>
> Andre
 >> Stay informed about: Saguenay and St Lawrence River 

Jean Dufour wrote:

>
> Form Montreal to Trois-Rivieres,

> This part ends the river
> estuary in the Lake St-Pierre, where tidals leftover downstreams die
> with the widening of the Lake.

Sorry! no! the river part of the St-Lawrence!
>
> From Trois-Riviere to Quebec,

Fluvial estuary, fresh water, current reverse on most of its part

Quebec-Tadoussac is the Tidal estuary, biggest tides, rather narrow
place, hardest place in bad wheather

> Waters begin to be
> brackish near Ile-aux Coudres

in Tadoussac: There end the Tidal estuary. Passed Ile Verte,
> you enter the Gulf Estuary

Tide height less than 3 feet highest, current less than 2 knots. Much wider.

There! Got it right now!

Jean
 >> Stay informed about: Saguenay and St Lawrence River 

don't know if other post went thru
My friend is very excited to post and is trying very hard to work out a
bug in his computer/email system to he can join this group. Untill he
does, I will ask him to send me his replies and I will post them. As
always thanks for your help. hope all is well. we are in the mist of an
all out and out white here in boston. maybe a couple feet of snow!
 >> Stay informed about: Saguenay and St Lawrence River 

Hi Richard,
I will try to correspond with these very nice people without making a
fool of myself. I have not forgotten that you also opened up my
nautical world by intoducing me to the GPS!
Thanks again,
Marty
 >> Stay informed about: Saguenay and St Lawrence River 

Hello Jean,
I am the person who Richard has been writing about concerning our
upcoming trip to the Saguenay/St.Lawrence River.
As you are probably aware, Richard & Alice are very generous with their
time & knowledge which enabled me to register in this Google Club and
avail myself of this valuable information.
My First Mate (wife) and I are planning to trail our 20ft Reinell
cruiser to Chicoutimi at the head of the Saguenay, launch there on
7/16/06,
arrive at Tadoussac July 21 (my birthday & also Alice's) remain there
for 3 days or as long as need be for good weather. We then plan to
proceed to Saint Simeon (where we hope to get gas) then on to Port de
Refuge de Cap a L'aigle where we intend to spend the night.
The next stop will be Port de Refuge Havre Jacques-Cartier for an
overnight and another sleepover at Club nautique de L'ile Bacchus on
L'ile d'Orleans. Finally we expect to arrive at Port de Quebec on July
27th and stay until 8/3 when we will take a train (or bus) back to
Chicoutimi to fetch our car & trailor, drive back to Quebec City
retrieve our boat and trailor it back to Boston.
We realize this is an ambitious trip not unlike some of our other crazy
adventures but our boat is well suitted for these trips. It draws
approximately 3ft, has an 8ft beam, a cabin that sleeps us comfortably,
a full galley with refrigerator, TWO heads, GPS, depth finder, VHF,
135hp Mercruiser, full camper top with windows & screens and two
fold-up bicycles that fit neatly in a cabinet!
We are trying to convince Richard & Alice to meet us in Tadoussac for
our birthdays.
My First has put together a spread sheet datailing the dates (which may
need revising), Marinas, anchorages, time of flood & ebb tides,
waypoints, chart numbers, mileages, and gas facilities. She did the
same for the northern passage & southern passage which we understand
may not be as pretty but less challenging. We would appreciate an
opinion about that.
Thank for the information you have forwarded to Richard.
Martin & Sarah Liberman (crew of the "Sarah Pond")
 >> Stay informed about: Saguenay and St Lawrence River 

Thank you for taking the time to compose all that Jean. Much obliged.
You have given me plenty to think about.

I would like to add that the trip is scheduled for the Jul/Aug
timeframe of '07. The weather link indicated that the winds are most
favourable for a boat that size during those months. The other item
that I would like to mention and would appreciate comments on is the
fact that my 26 foot sailboat will, when not actually sailing, be
powered by a 9.9 HP Yamaha outboard. Does anyone feel that I would be
underpowered at any time during this sojourn. Again, thanks in advance.
Eric
 >> Stay informed about: Saguenay and St Lawrence River