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Marc Beroz

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Since: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 6



(Msg. 1) Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 10:27 am
Post subject: Shortcut for replacing plywood core?
Archived from groups: rec>boats>building (more info?)

I have a Rhodes 22 sailboat with some plywood core in the bow that turned to
mush. Water entered through a poorly sealed hole for a cowl. Last October I
scraped out the rotted core using wire. I was able to do this from the
existing cowl hole. The core I now need to replace extends about 1 foot back
& 180 degrees from the edge of the cowl opening. Ideally I would push in
epoxy with filler to fill the void but can't see an effective way of doing
that & repair such a large area. Then I thought about how handy it would be
to use an expanding foam to fill this area & then seal the edge with epoxy
at the cowl. The deck is very strong & does not flex. I don't think my foam
idea is a smart thing to do but I thought I would ask your opinion before I
abandoned the idea entirely. Any thoughts on fixing this without cutting
some fiberglass skin would be appreciated though I do have excellant access
to the damaged area from inside the boat.
Thanks
Marc

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RodiniaOne1

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Since: Feb 23, 2004
Posts: 4



(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 5:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Shortcut for replacing plywood core? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Marc Beroz" <kfiske RemoveThis @erols.com> wrote in message news:<403f37af$0$3088$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>...
 > I have a Rhodes 22 sailboat with some plywood core in the bow that turned to
 > mush. Water entered through a poorly sealed hole for a cowl. Last October I
 > scraped out the rotted core using wire. I was able to do this from the
 > existing cowl hole. The core I now need to replace extends about 1 foot back
 > & 180 degrees from the edge of the cowl opening. Ideally I would push in
 > epoxy with filler to fill the void but can't see an effective way of doing
 > that & repair such a large area. Then I thought about how handy it would be
 > to use an expanding foam to fill this area & then seal the edge with epoxy
 > at the cowl. The deck is very strong & does not flex. I don't think my foam
 > idea is a smart thing to do but I thought I would ask your opinion before I
 > abandoned the idea entirely. Any thoughts on fixing this without cutting
 > some fiberglass skin would be appreciated though I do have excellant access
 > to the damaged area from inside the boat.
 > Thanks
 > Marc

Hey Marc,
It sure was nice of "OLD NICK" to give out such good advice for free!

Here's what I understand of your situation: 2 layers of fiberglass,
1/2 to 3/4 inch of mush in between them for diameter of approx. 2
sqft. and you have access to this mush through a small (6in.max)hole
in the middle once you removed the cowl.

The "right" way to fix this would be to rip off the top fiberglass
skin and expose all of the rotten plywood, then replace the core
material and apply a new fiberglass skin, then re gelcoat the whole
thing recreating the antislip patern on the deck somewhere during the
process.

I suspect that this may not be the best solution for you for whatever
reason. A 22 ft sailboat with a cabin trunk does not have a very
large fordeck,and does not have a large unsupported area.

So lets look at the the desired outcome before we go straight to
fixes. You want to replace the core with as little effort as possible
and still have a safe boat. The core simply seperates the two layers
of f/g to make for a stiffer panel section. To do this, the core
needs to be VERY WELL bonded to both top and bottom skins.
If your deck feels stiff with the mush inside, it's probably fairly
well build (or at lease the top layer is fairly thick).

Using 2 part polyurathane foam is an accepted practice in boat
building, especially by power boat builders. They tend to use 2 part
P/U foam to do everything from filling holes and deadair space to
bonding (non structual- eg: fish wells) items to the boat. This stuff
sticks to anything and is just as dense as cheap end-grain balsa core
- which is used in most boat decks built post 1975ish.

I would suggest that you go ahead and try the 2 part P/U foam but with
these precautions: get ALL of the rotten wood out, throughly clean the
area between the skins with acetone (3+ times), mix very small batches
of foam and let it expand and dry before applying the next batch(this
stuff expands so much that it WILL push the 2 layers of f/g apart if
it is trapped. once all of the foam is in, router out (or cut
manually) about 3/4 of an inch back from the opening where you filled
and replace with thickened epoxy. Give yourself enough room so that
the screws that keep the cowl on bite into the epoxy rather than the
foam.

IMPORTANT things to remember:
1. Get all of the "soft" wood out
2. clean throughly with acetone
3. mix small batches
4. let each batch cure before applying next batch(make sure you get it
into all of the corners
5. seal all edges with epoxy (just like wood, the foam will absorb
water, so keep it dry at all cost
6. Spend more of your time on the water

Cheers
R.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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Old Nick2

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Since: Feb 25, 2004
Posts: 32



(Msg. 3) Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:59 am
Post subject: Re: Shortcut for replacing plywood core? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 07:27:26 -0500, "Marc Beroz" <kfiske DeleteThis @erols.com>
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

 >I don't think my foam
 >idea is a smart thing to do but I thought I would ask your opinion before I
 >abandoned the idea entirely.

nuff sed.

It's a boat. Your life may depend on it. It's a stress area. You have
access. Do it properly. I would also be looking at what is wrong with
the design/surrounds that the ply turned to mush. Why did the water
get in? Design or build? Accident? rebuild the area and some around
it.

Boats are not cheap.

 >I have a Rhodes 22 sailboat with some plywood core in the bow that turned to
 >mush. Water entered through a poorly sealed hole for a cowl. Last October I
 >scraped out the rotted core using wire. I was able to do this from the
 >existing cowl hole. The core I now need to replace extends about 1 foot back
 >& 180 degrees from the edge of the cowl opening. Ideally I would push in
 >epoxy with filler to fill the void but can't see an effective way of doing
 >that & repair such a large area. Then I thought about how handy it would be
 >to use an expanding foam to fill this area & then seal the edge with epoxy
 >at the cowl. The deck is very strong & does not flex. I don't think my foam
 >idea is a smart thing to do but I thought I would ask your opinion before I
 >abandoned the idea entirely. Any thoughts on fixing this without cutting
 >some fiberglass skin would be appreciated though I do have excellant access
 >to the damaged area from inside the boat.
 >Thanks
 >Marc
 >

**************************************************** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Spike....Spike? Hello?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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MMC

External


Since: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 43



(Msg. 4) Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:59 am
Post subject: Re: Shortcut for replacing plywood core? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

I'd make use of that access from below, cut GOOD plywood (marine or ext fir)
to fit and glue it in with West System epoxy making sure theply is well
bonded with the old (solid) ply.
My opinion fwiw.
Merlin.
"Old Nick" <nsnfwhite.DeleteThis@idodo.net.au> wrote in message
news:i1ju30p61fe7rgqpjmtj3v2pp53bpkgjs3@4ax.com...
 > On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 07:27:26 -0500, "Marc Beroz" <kfiske.DeleteThis@erols.com>
 > vaguely proposed a theory
 > ......and in reply I say!:
 >
  > >I don't think my foam
  > >idea is a smart thing to do but I thought I would ask your opinion before
I
  > >abandoned the idea entirely.
 >
 > nuff sed.
 >
 > It's a boat. Your life may depend on it. It's a stress area. You have
 > access. Do it properly. I would also be looking at what is wrong with
 > the design/surrounds that the ply turned to mush. Why did the water
 > get in? Design or build? Accident? rebuild the area and some around
 > it.
 >
 > Boats are not cheap.
 >
  > >I have a Rhodes 22 sailboat with some plywood core in the bow that turned
to
  > >mush. Water entered through a poorly sealed hole for a cowl. Last October
I
  > >scraped out the rotted core using wire. I was able to do this from the
  > >existing cowl hole. The core I now need to replace extends about 1 foot
back
  > >& 180 degrees from the edge of the cowl opening. Ideally I would push in
  > >epoxy with filler to fill the void but can't see an effective way of
doing
  > >that & repair such a large area. Then I thought about how handy it would
be
  > >to use an expanding foam to fill this area & then seal the edge with
epoxy
  > >at the cowl. The deck is very strong & does not flex. I don't think my
foam
  > >idea is a smart thing to do but I thought I would ask your opinion before
I
  > >abandoned the idea entirely. Any thoughts on fixing this without cutting
  > >some fiberglass skin would be appreciated though I do have excellant
access
  > >to the damaged area from inside the boat.
  > >Thanks
  > >Marc
  > >
 >
 > **************************************************** sorry
 >
 > .........no I'm not!
 > remove ns from my header address to reply via email
 >
 > Spike....Spike? Hello?
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Rodney Myrvaagnes

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Since: Aug 17, 2003
Posts: 97



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:59 am
Post subject: Re: Shortcut for replacing plywood core? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 21:59:12 +0800, Old Nick <nsnfwhite.TakeThisOut@idodo.net.au>
wrote:

 >nuff sed.
 >
 >It's a boat. Your life may depend on it. It's a stress area. You have
 >access. Do it properly. I would also be looking at what is wrong with
 >the design/surrounds that the ply turned to mush. Why did the water
 >get in? Design or build? Accident? rebuild the area and some around
 >it.
 >
Plywood is not a suitable core. It has the same problem as any
non-end-grain wood core. Moisture travels along the grain.

Water will get in somewhere sometime.


Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


"Accordions don't play 'Lady of Spain.' People play 'Lady of Spain."<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Marc Beroz

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Since: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 6



(Msg. 6) Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 2:07 am
Post subject: Re: Shortcut for replacing plywood core? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Thanks for your comments. I've responded to some of your points below.

 > Here's what I understand of your situation: 2 layers of fiberglass,
 > 1/2 to 3/4 inch of mush in between them for diameter of approx. 2
 > sqft. and you have access to this mush through a small (6in.max)hole
 > in the middle once you removed the cowl.
 >
That's correct. The core is 1/2" plywood.

 > The "right" way to fix this would be to rip off the top fiberglass
 > skin and expose all of the rotten plywood, then replace the core
 > material and apply a new fiberglass skin, then re gelcoat the whole
 > thing recreating the antislip patern on the deck somewhere during the
 > process.

I figured if I removed a fiberglass skin, it would be the inner one since I
have good access & I wouldn't have to deal with the non-skid. This leads me
to another question if I go this route. In one area the mush core has been
removed all the way to the edge of the deck. To replace this core, how close
to the hull/deck joint should I cut the fiberglass skin? If I cut too close
to where the deck meets the hull, I won't have enough space to grind out a
bevel & then reglass the skin back into place. On the other hand, the
further out from the hull I stay with my cut, the harder it will be to get a
good bond between the new core I install & the inner fiberglass skin that I
did not cut out along the edge of the hull. (I'm having a hard time
describing this.) I've been mulling this over for awhile & been been
thinking I'd cut the deck's lower fiberglass skin about 2.5 inches away
from the hull. Any thoughts?

 >
 > I suspect that this may not be the best solution for you for whatever
 > reason. A 22 ft sailboat with a cabin trunk does not have a very
 > large fordeck,and does not have a large unsupported area.

The only reason I was looking for an alternative is that I want to minimize
down time. I was looking to make the quickest repair without sacrificing
safety. I thought that if I made a foam repair & that failed, I could always
do the traditional repair at some point in the future.

 >
 > So lets look at the the desired outcome before we go straight to
 > fixes. You want to replace the core with as little effort as possible
 > and still have a safe boat. The core simply seperates the two layers
 > of f/g to make for a stiffer panel section. To do this, the core
 > needs to be VERY WELL bonded to both top and bottom skins.
 > If your deck feels stiff with the mush inside, it's probably fairly
 > well build (or at lease the top layer is fairly thick).
 >
 > Using 2 part polyurathane foam is an accepted practice in boat
 > building, especially by power boat builders. They tend to use 2 part
 > P/U foam to do everything from filling holes and deadair space to
 > bonding (non structual- eg: fish wells) items to the boat. This stuff
 > sticks to anything and is just as dense as cheap end-grain balsa core
 > - which is used in most boat decks built post 1975ish.

 > I would suggest that you go ahead and try the 2 part P/U foam but with
 > these precautions: get ALL of the rotten wood out, throughly clean the
 > area between the skins with acetone (3+ times)

I assume you get the acetone in there by shooting it in with a syringe &
then allowing it to evaporate out?

, mix very small batches
 > of foam and let it expand and dry before applying the next batch(this
 > stuff expands so much that it WILL push the 2 layers of f/g apart if
 > it is trapped.

I've looked at the foam products & have wondered how I could get 2 part foam
back far enough between the skins. Is there any way to spray it rather than
pour it? Or are you thinking that I close off the cowl hole in the inner
skin and then pour 2 part foam in from above the deck. I don't have
experience with 2 part foam. Is it real viscous prior to setting up or will
it flow? What if I used 1 part spray foam?

once all of the foam is in, router out (or cut
 > manually) about 3/4 of an inch back from the opening where you filled
 > and replace with thickened epoxy. Give yourself enough room so that
 > the screws that keep the cowl on bite into the epoxy rather than the
 > foam.

Agree

 > IMPORTANT things to remember:
 > 1. Get all of the "soft" wood out

I can get all the soft stuff out that I can move with a 1/16 inch diameter
piece of wire but that won't be as good as having good access to the problem
area with a skin removed.

 > 2. clean throughly with acetone
 > 3. mix small batches
 > 4. let each batch cure before applying next batch(make sure you get it
 > into all of the corners
 > 5. seal all edges with epoxy (just like wood, the foam will absorb
 > water, so keep it dry at all cost
 > 6. Spend more of your time on the water
 >

The more I consider the obstacles, the more I think I may just have to bite
the bullet & get to work cutting glass. I'd be interested in what you think.
Thanks, Marc<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Marc Beroz

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Since: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 6



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 2:10 am
Post subject: Re: Shortcut for replacing plywood core? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Rodney,
What do you suggest I use for core?
Marc

"> >
 > Plywood is not a suitable core. It has the same problem as any
 > non-end-grain wood core. Moisture travels along the grain.
 >
 > Water will get in somewhere sometime.
 >
 >
 > Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC
J36 Gjo/a
 >
 >
 > "Accordions don't play 'Lady of Spain.' People play 'Lady of Spain."<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Marc Beroz

External


Since: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 6



(Msg. 8) Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 2:13 am
Post subject: Re: Shortcut for replacing plywood core? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Merlin,
Since I want to re-gelcoat the patch on the inner skin, I was thinking I
should use a polyester laminating resin. Am I wrong here?
Marc


"MMC" <merlinuxo DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:WmL%b.144622$B81.1124814@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
 > I'd make use of that access from below, cut GOOD plywood (marine or ext
fir)
 > to fit and glue it in with West System epoxy making sure theply is well
 > bonded with the old (solid) ply.
 > My opinion fwiw.
 > Merlin.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Marc Beroz

External


Since: Feb 27, 2004
Posts: 6



(Msg. 9) Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 2:18 am
Post subject: Re: Shortcut for replacing plywood core? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Nick,
Your point is well taken. Water intrusion was due to the plywood never
having been properly sealed at the cowl. The caulking at the cowl failed &
that's the tragic end.
Marc

"Old Nick" <nsnfwhite.DeleteThis@idodo.net.au> wrote in message
news:i1ju30p61fe7rgqpjmtj3v2pp53bpkgjs3@4ax.com...
 > On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 07:27:26 -0500, "Marc Beroz" <kfiske.DeleteThis@erols.com>
 > vaguely proposed a theory
 > ......and in reply I say!:
 >
  > >I don't think my foam
  > >idea is a smart thing to do but I thought I would ask your opinion before
I
  > >abandoned the idea entirely.
 >
 > nuff sed.
 >
 > It's a boat. Your life may depend on it. It's a stress area. You have
 > access. Do it properly. I would also be looking at what is wrong with
 > the design/surrounds that the ply turned to mush. Why did the water
 > get in? Design or build? Accident? rebuild the area and some around
 > it.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Rodney Myrvaagnes

External


Since: Aug 17, 2003
Posts: 97



(Msg. 10) Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Shortcut for replacing plywood core? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 23:10:29 -0500, "Marc Beroz" <kfiske.DeleteThis@erols.com>
wrote:

 >Rodney,
 >What do you suggest I use for core?
 >Marc
 >
Closed cell foam or end grain balsa, if bonded properly, will isolate
places where water penetrates. You could also glass it solid, although
you would be adding weight just where you don't want it.


I think you are right about cutting out the inner skin, leaving enough
edge to feather and glass it back.

If you started with a piece of good marine plywood with no voids and
covered it in epoxy before starting, you might be able to keep it dry
as long as the rest of the boat will last.

You could also get away with solid _white_ oak for a good while. Not
red oak.

Do you know how old the boat is, and how long it took to get the
current problem? Also, do you know there is not more of the same
elsewhere?

Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a


"Biologists think they are chemists, chemists think they are phycisists,
physicists think they are gods, and God thinks He is a mathematician." Anon<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Old Nick2

External


Since: Feb 25, 2004
Posts: 32



(Msg. 11) Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 4:22 pm
Post subject: Re: Shortcut for replacing plywood core? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On 27 Feb 2004 14:27:24 -0800, wellin.DeleteThis@canada.com (RodiniaOne) vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

Apart from this comment, I am going to ignore your silly dig.

2-part PU foam is _crap_ core, by the way.

 >The "right" way to fix this would be to rip off the top fiberglass
 >skin and expose all of the rotten plywood, then replace the core

 >I suspect that this may not be the best solution for you for whatever
 >reason. A 22 ft sailboat with a cabin trunk does not have a very
 >large fordeck,and does not have a large unsupported area.

So the right way is not the best way....hmmmmm.

 >Using 2 part polyurathane foam is an accepted practice in boat
 >building, especially by power boat builders.

It is also done for economy and is _questioned_ by many many people in
the boating industry.


**************************************************** sorry

..........no I'm not!
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Spike....Spike? Hello?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Brian Cleverly

External


Since: Sep 28, 2003
Posts: 5



(Msg. 12) Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Shortcut for replacing plywood core? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote:
 >
 > On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 23:10:29 -0500, "Marc Beroz" <kfiske DeleteThis @erols.com>
 > wrote:
 >
  > >Rodney,
  > >What do you suggest I use for core?
  > >Marc
  > >
 > Closed cell foam or end grain balsa, if bonded properly, will isolate
 > places where water penetrates.

I agree with the foam, but you are dead wrong about the balsa... I've
replaced the balsa core in many decks where the endgrain balsa has acted
like a sponge and totally rotted out.

Don't believe me ? For an example, take a look at:

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="ftp://ftp.sailnet.com/pearson/pearson_models/vanguard/Hull%2045%20restore/deck_core/0815-rotted%20core.jpg" target="_blank">ftp://ftp.sailnet.com/pearson/pearson_models/vanguard/Hull%2045%20rest.../deck_c</a>

(sorry about the long address).

Brian Cleverly (to reply direct, replace the first "z" with an "n" in
the header address)<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Rodney Myrvaagnes

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Since: Aug 17, 2003
Posts: 97



(Msg. 13) Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 5:09 am
Post subject: Re: Shortcut for replacing plywood core? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 18:24:10 -0800, Brian Cleverly <brian-c DeleteThis @azzam.com>
wrote:

 >
 >
 >Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote:
  >>
  >> On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 23:10:29 -0500, "Marc Beroz" <kfiske DeleteThis @erols.com>
  >> wrote:
  >>
   >> >Rodney,
   >> >What do you suggest I use for core?
   >> >Marc
   >> >
  >> Closed cell foam or end grain balsa, if bonded properly, will isolate
  >> places where water penetrates.
 >
 >I agree with the foam, but you are dead wrong about the balsa... I've
 >replaced the balsa core in many decks where the endgrain balsa has acted
 >like a sponge and totally rotted out.
 >
 >Don't believe me ? For an example, take a look at:
 >
 >ftp://ftp.sailnet.com/pearson/pearson_models/vanguard/Hull%2045%20restore/deck_core/0815-rotted%20core.jpg
 >
Pearson used balsa in non-end-grain orientation in early boats.

I have a 24-year-old boat that has suffered numerous insults and
repairs and is still strong and just passed a survey. It is cored with
Baltek end-grain.

If the end-grain core is not bonded to the outer layers, water can
travel between, as it can with any core. It does not travel fast
across the grain inside the wood.



Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a


MOM CASTS TOT IN CEMENT

Most experts voice cautious optimism<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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Brian Cleverly

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Since: Sep 28, 2003
Posts: 5



(Msg. 14) Posted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 7:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Shortcut for replacing plywood core? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote:
>
> On Sat, 28 Feb 2004 18:24:10 -0800, Brian Cleverly <brian-c.TakeThisOut@azzam.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Rodney Myrvaagnes wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 23:10:29 -0500, "Marc Beroz" <kfiske.TakeThisOut@erols.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Rodney,
> >> >What do you suggest I use for core?
> >> >Marc
> >> >
> >> Closed cell foam or end grain balsa, if bonded properly, will isolate
> >> places where water penetrates.
> >
> >I agree with the foam, but you are dead wrong about the balsa... I've
> >replaced the balsa core in many decks where the endgrain balsa has acted
> >like a sponge and totally rotted out.
> >
> >Don't believe me ? For an example, take a look at:
> >
> >ftp://ftp.sailnet.com/pearson/pearson_models/vanguard/Hull%2045%20restore/deck_core/0815-rotted%20core.jpg
> >
> Pearson used balsa in non-end-grain orientation in early boats.
>

If you look closely, you will see that this was in fact endgrain.

I've had exactly the same situation with Cal (not early ones), and
Ericson boats.

> I have a 24-year-old boat that has suffered numerous insults and
> repairs and is still strong and just passed a survey. It is cored with
> Baltek end-grain.
>
> If the end-grain core is not bonded to the outer layers, water can
> travel between, as it can with any core. It does not travel fast
> across the grain inside the wood.
>

Agreed, certainly it can travel like that. It is not obvious in the
photo (I wish I had a better one) but there was clear evidence of the
blocks being bonded top and bottom, plus I had to break off numerous
polyester ridges that existed between the blocks.

However, the original poster asked your recommendations for core and you
didn't even hint that he would have to be extremely particular with the
way he installed balsa. FWIW, when I install new balsa I saturate it
with Sys 3 "Clear Coat" epoxy.

As an aside, that particular Pearson has been cut-up and buried in
landfill due to the discovery of gross amounts of delamination in the
hull layup.

Brian Cleverly (to reply direct, replace the first "z" with an "n").

> Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a
>
> MOM CASTS TOT IN CEMENT
>
> Most experts voice cautious optimism
 >> Stay informed about: Shortcut for replacing plywood core? 
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Richard R.

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Since: Mar 06, 2005
Posts: 4



(Msg. 15) Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Shortcut for replacing plywood core? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.transomrepair.com/" target="_blank">http://www.transomrepair.com/</a>


I used this stuff to fix the tansom on my boat.

And its waterproof.


On Fri, 27 Feb 2004 23:07:39 -0500, "Marc Beroz" <kfiske.TakeThisOut@erols.com>
wrote:

 >Thanks for your comments. I've responded to some of your points below.
 >
  >> Here's what I understand of your situation: 2 layers of fiberglass,
  >> 1/2 to 3/4 inch of mush in between them for diameter of approx. 2
  >> sqft. and you have access to this mush through a small (6in.max)hole
  >> in the middle once you removed the cowl.
  >>
 >That's correct. The core is 1/2" plywood.
 >
  >> The "right" way to fix this would be to rip off the top fiberglass
  >> skin and expose all of the rotten plywood, then replace the core
  >> material and apply a new fiberglass skin, then re gelcoat the whole
  >> thing recreating the antislip patern on the deck somewhere during the
  >> process.
 >
 >I figured if I removed a fiberglass skin, it would be the inner one since I
 >have good access & I wouldn't have to deal with the non-skid. This leads me
 >to another question if I go this route. In one area the mush core has been
 >removed all the way to the edge of the deck. To replace this core, how close
 >to the hull/deck joint should I cut the fiberglass skin? If I cut too close
 >to where the deck meets the hull, I won't have enough space to grind out a
 >bevel & then reglass the skin back into place. On the other hand, the
 >further out from the hull I stay with my cut, the harder it will be to get a
 >good bond between the new core I install & the inner fiberglass skin that I
 >did not cut out along the edge of the hull. (I'm having a hard time
 >describing this.) I've been mulling this over for awhile & been been
 >thinking I'd cut the deck's lower fiberglass skin about 2.5 inches away
 >from the hull. Any thoughts?
 >
  >>
  >> I suspect that this may not be the best solution for you for whatever
  >> reason. A 22 ft sailboat with a cabin trunk does not have a very
  >> large fordeck,and does not have a large unsupported area.
 >
 >The only reason I was looking for an alternative is that I want to minimize
 >down time. I was looking to make the quickest repair without sacrificing
 >safety. I thought that if I made a foam repair & that failed, I could always
 >do the traditional repair at some point in the future.
 >
  >>
  >> So lets look at the the desired outcome before we go straight to
  >> fixes. You want to replace the core with as little effort as possible
  >> and still have a safe boat. The core simply seperates the two layers
  >> of f/g to make for a stiffer panel section. To do this, the core
  >> needs to be VERY WELL bonded to both top and bottom skins.
  >> If your deck feels stiff with the mush inside, it's probably fairly
  >> well build (or at lease the top layer is fairly thick).
  >>
  >> Using 2 part polyurathane foam is an accepted practice in boat
  >> building, especially by power boat builders. They tend to use 2 part
  >> P/U foam to do everything from filling holes and deadair space to
  >> bonding (non structual- eg: fish wells) items to the boat. This stuff
  >> sticks to anything and is just as dense as cheap end-grain balsa core
  >> - which is used in most boat decks built post 1975ish.
 >
  >> I would suggest that you go ahead and try the 2 part P/U foam but with
  >> these precautions: get ALL of the rotten wood out, throughly clean the
  >> area between the skins with acetone (3+ times)
 >
 >I assume you get the acetone in there by shooting it in with a syringe &
 >then allowing it to evaporate out?
 >
 >, mix very small batches
  >> of foam and let it expand and dry before applying the next batch(this
  >> stuff expands so much that it WILL push the 2 layers of f/g apart if
  >> it is trapped.
 >
 >I've looked at the foam products & have wondered how I could get 2 part foam
 >back far enough between the skins. Is there any way to spray it rather than
 >pour it? Or are you thinking that I close off the cowl hole in the inner
 >skin and then pour 2 part foam in from above the deck. I don't have
 >experience with 2 part foam. Is it real viscous prior to setting up or will
 >it flow? What if I used 1 part spray foam?
 >
 >once all of the foam is in, router out (or cut
  >> manually) about 3/4 of an inch back from the opening where you filled
  >> and replace with thickened epoxy. Give yourself enough room so that
  >> the screws that keep the cowl on bite into the epoxy rather than the
  >> foam.
 >
 >Agree
 >
  >> IMPORTANT things to remember:
  >> 1. Get all of the "soft" wood out
 >
 >I can get all the soft stuff out that I can move with a 1/16 inch diameter
 >piece of wire but that won't be as good as having good access to the problem
 >area with a skin removed.
 >
  >> 2. clean throughly with acetone
  >> 3. mix small batches
  >> 4. let each batch cure before applying next batch(make sure you get it
  >> into all of the corners
  >> 5. seal all edges with epoxy (just like wood, the foam will absorb
  >> water, so keep it dry at all cost
  >> 6. Spend more of your time on the water
  >>
 >
 >The more I consider the obstacles, the more I think I may just have to bite
 >the bullet & get to work cutting glass. I'd be interested in what you think.
 >Thanks, Marc
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Shortcut for replacing plywood core? 
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