Top heavy?

On Jul 3, 4:23 pm, Gogarty <Goga....TakeThisOut@Clongowes.edu.ie> wrote:
> In article
> <96276237-48b8-4724-93aa-b4e87b88f....TakeThisOut@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> justwaitafrekinmin....TakeThisOut@gmail.com says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Jul 3, 11:34 am, David <dh@.> wrote:
> >> I've got an old boat very much like this one:
>
> >>http://www.warnersdock.com/images/Freebies/fores15yel.JPG
>
> >> that I'm trying to make into a mini-houseboat,
> >> sort of like a camper. I only expect to have
> >> about 200-300 pounds in the roof and walls,
> >> and the roof will only be about 48" above
> >> the gunwale. The hull will weigh a *lot* more
> >> than what is added, so shouldn't that alone
> >> be enough to keep it from being top heavy
> >> and flipping over? If I add weight, like a
> >> couple hundred pound bags of sand down
> >> in the hull to counterballance, shouldn't
> >> that take care of it? If so, should they
> >> be placed on the sides, or in the center?
>
> >This is a bad idea on several levels. Even if you can make the math
> >seem to work, the hull is designed to sit at a certain level in the
> >water so as to be safe during all aspects of operation while cruising
> >or in emergency conditions. Pitch a tent up there, or get a different
> >boat. It's like pulling a trailer that is too heavy for the vehicle.
> >The vehicle might get it rolling, but in an emergency can't react the
> >way you want it to, or the way it was designed.. You might get away
> >with it for years, but it could also get you killed in seconds. In a
> >nutshell, you have the wrong tool for the job. Change your plan, or
> >get a different boat... Just my opinion, but I am always against
> >modifying a tried and tested design..
>
> >Scotty
> >SmallBoats.com
>
> It's not the weight. It's the moment.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I have programs here that will calculate any of it, but I was trying
to keep it simple for a layman.. At the same time, a note to the
OP... I defer to Eisboch in this case. He has much more experience
than I in this area... I have booklearnin' he has boats;)
 >> Stay informed about: Top heavy? 

On Jul 3, 5:01 pm, "Eisboch" <noth....RemoveThis@nowhere.com> wrote:
> <justwaitafrekinmin....RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:feb4385a-3c8a-426b-afae-18281db8c63d@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
> I have programs here that will calculate any of it, but I was trying
> to keep it simple for a layman..  At the same time, a note to the
> OP... I defer to Eisboch in this case. He has much more experience
> than I in this area... I have booklearnin' he has boats;)
>
> --------------------------------
>
> I have absolutely *no* experience in converting a small lake boat into a
> houseboat.
>
> Eisboch

Yes, but you have probably been in boats that size, or similar
configuration.... I have not..
 >> Stay informed about: Top heavy? 

This message is not archived
 >> Stay informed about: Top heavy? 

"Gogarty" <Gogarty DeleteThis @Clongowes.edu.ie> wrote in message
news:20080703-202315.36.0@Gogarty.news.bway.net...
> In article
> <96276237-48b8-4724-93aa-b4e87b88fef2 DeleteThis @m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
> justwaitafrekinminute DeleteThis @gmail.com says...
>>
>>
>>On Jul 3, 11:34 am, David <dh@.> wrote:
>>> I've got an old boat very much like this one:
>>>
>>> http://www.warnersdock.com/images/Freebies/fores15yel.JPG
>>>
>>> that I'm trying to make into a mini-houseboat,
>>> sort of like a camper. I only expect to have
>>> about 200-300 pounds in the roof and walls,
>>> and the roof will only be about 48" above
>>> the gunwale. The hull will weigh a *lot* more
>>> than what is added, so shouldn't that alone
>>> be enough to keep it from being top heavy
>>> and flipping over? If I add weight, like a
>>> couple hundred pound bags of sand down
>>> in the hull to counterballance, shouldn't
>>> that take care of it? If so, should they
>>> be placed on the sides, or in the center?
>>
>>This is a bad idea on several levels. Even if you can make the math
>>seem to work, the hull is designed to sit at a certain level in the
>>water so as to be safe during all aspects of operation while cruising
>>or in emergency conditions. Pitch a tent up there, or get a different
>>boat. It's like pulling a trailer that is too heavy for the vehicle.
>>The vehicle might get it rolling, but in an emergency can't react the
>>way you want it to, or the way it was designed.. You might get away
>>with it for years, but it could also get you killed in seconds. In a
>>nutshell, you have the wrong tool for the job. Change your plan, or
>>get a different boat... Just my opinion, but I am always against
>>modifying a tried and tested design..
>>
>>
>>Scotty
>>SmallBoats.com
>
> It's not the weight. It's the moment.
>

I think it all depends on how the OP intends to use his "houseboat".
3-4 footers in the ocean? No way.
A lazy, small lake somewhere? Go for it.

Eisboch
 >> Stay informed about: Top heavy? 

<justwaitafrekinminute.TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:feb4385a-3c8a-426b-afae-18281db8c63d@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...


I have programs here that will calculate any of it, but I was trying
to keep it simple for a layman.. At the same time, a note to the
OP... I defer to Eisboch in this case. He has much more experience
than I in this area... I have booklearnin' he has boats;)

--------------------------------

I have absolutely *no* experience in converting a small lake boat into a
houseboat.

Eisboch
 >> Stay informed about: Top heavy? 

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 14:34:39 -0100, David <dh@.> wrote:

>I've got an old boat very much like this one:
>
>http://www.warnersdock.com/images/Freebies/fores15yel.JPG
>
>that I'm trying to make into a mini-houseboat,
>sort of like a camper. I only expect to have
>about 200-300 pounds in the roof and walls,
>and the roof will only be about 48" above
>the gunwale. The hull will weigh a *lot* more
>than what is added, so shouldn't that alone
>be enough to keep it from being top heavy
>and flipping over? If I add weight, like a
>couple hundred pound bags of sand down
>in the hull to counterballance, shouldn't
>that take care of it? If so, should they
>be placed on the sides, or in the center?

That hull doesn't weigh as much as you think it does. Plus, it's
essentially flat which, while counter-intuitive, makes it less stable.

Alll boats and ships obey two laws of physics - center of buoyancy
(CB) which is the center of the underwater volume of the vessel and
center of gravity (CG) which is where all the mass would be
concentrated if it had to be compressed to a single point. To float
properly on the design waterline, then the CG must be in line
vertically with the CB.

Once you start messing around with CG (which is essentially what you
are doing), it throws off the CB (because they are interrelated) and
you are constantly playing catch-up to keep it properly oriented (dry
side up and wet side down). Even adding 300 pounds isn't going to
affect anything much because your CB, which is not a constant and can
change depending on any number of factors, is out of whack.

Additionally, you have to worry about beam - it ain't got none to
speak of.

You can figure it all out if you really want to.

http://www.johnsboatstuff.com/Articles/estimati.htm

Good luck.
 >> Stay informed about: Top heavy? 

"David" <dh@.> wrote in message
news:7csp64drh65c0178ae1dgatcpn75jpn66s@4ax.com...
> I've got an old boat very much like this one:
>
> http://www.warnersdock.com/images/Freebies/fores15yel.JPG
>

<snip>

THIS is top-heavy:
http://images.thebiggestbreasts.com/post/20070820/humongous_fake_boobs.jpg

Caution: nudity. Adults only please.

--
Gregory Hall
 >> Stay informed about: Top heavy? 

Holy shi** <g>

--Mike

"Gregory Hall" <greghall RemoveThis @home.fake> wrote in message
news:20gc78.qte.19.1@news.alt.net...
>
> "David" <dh@.> wrote in message
> news:7csp64drh65c0178ae1dgatcpn75jpn66s@4ax.com...
>> I've got an old boat very much like this one:
>>
>> http://www.warnersdock.com/images/Freebies/fores15yel.JPG
>>
>
> <snip>
>
> THIS is top-heavy:
> http://images.thebiggestbreasts.com/post/20070820/humongous_fake_boobs.jpg
>
> Caution: nudity. Adults only please.
>
> --
> Gregory Hall
>
 >> Stay informed about: Top heavy? 

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:30:25 -0400, "Eisboch" <nothere.RemoveThis@nowhere.com> wrote:

>
>"Gogarty" <Gogarty.RemoveThis@Clongowes.edu.ie> wrote in message
>news:20080703-202315.36.0@Gogarty.news.bway.net...
>> In article
>> <96276237-48b8-4724-93aa-b4e87b88fef2.RemoveThis@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>,
>> justwaitafrekinminute.RemoveThis@gmail.com says...
>>>
>>>
>>>On Jul 3, 11:34 am, David <dh@.> wrote:
>>>> I've got an old boat very much like this one:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.warnersdock.com/images/Freebies/fores15yel.JPG
>>>>
>>>> that I'm trying to make into a mini-houseboat,
>>>> sort of like a camper. I only expect to have
>>>> about 200-300 pounds in the roof and walls,
>>>> and the roof will only be about 48" above
>>>> the gunwale. The hull will weigh a *lot* more
>>>> than what is added, so shouldn't that alone
>>>> be enough to keep it from being top heavy
>>>> and flipping over? If I add weight, like a
>>>> couple hundred pound bags of sand down
>>>> in the hull to counterballance, shouldn't
>>>> that take care of it? If so, should they
>>>> be placed on the sides, or in the center?
>>>
>>>This is a bad idea on several levels. Even if you can make the math
>>>seem to work, the hull is designed to sit at a certain level in the
>>>water so as to be safe during all aspects of operation while cruising
>>>or in emergency conditions. Pitch a tent up there, or get a different
>>>boat. It's like pulling a trailer that is too heavy for the vehicle.
>>>The vehicle might get it rolling, but in an emergency can't react the
>>>way you want it to, or the way it was designed.. You might get away
>>>with it for years, but it could also get you killed in seconds. In a
>>>nutshell, you have the wrong tool for the job. Change your plan, or
>>>get a different boat... Just my opinion, but I am always against
>>>modifying a tried and tested design..
>>>
>>>
>>>Scotty
>>>SmallBoats.com
>>
>> It's not the weight. It's the moment.
>>
>
>I think it all depends on how the OP intends to use his "houseboat".
>3-4 footers in the ocean? No way.
>A lazy, small lake somewhere? Go for it.
>
>Eisboch

It is on a lake. I wouldn't try it in the ocean. It's not as wide as the
houseboats around here, but it's not as tall either so I'm hoping it
will sort of balance out and be about the same thing. And when I
think about the cruisers in the ocean, with a flybridge, and then
a flybridge on top of the flybridge, and sometimes a flybridge on
top of the flybridge on top of the flybridge...how does all that work?
 >> Stay informed about: Top heavy? 

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 14:34:39 -0100, David <dh@.> wrote:

>I've got an old boat very much like this one:
>
>http://www.warnersdock.com/images/Freebies/fores15yel.JPG
>
>that I'm trying to make into a mini-houseboat,
>sort of like a camper. I only expect to have
>about 200-300 pounds in the roof and walls,
>and the roof will only be about 48" above
>the gunwale. The hull will weigh a *lot* more
>than what is added, so shouldn't that alone
>be enough to keep it from being top heavy
>and flipping over? If I add weight, like a
>couple hundred pound bags of sand down
>in the hull to counterballance, shouldn't
>that take care of it? If so, should they
>be placed on the sides, or in the center?

Use a tent! The thing will add only 20lbs to the boat, is easy to remove,
and can be configured all kinds of ways. Check LLBean for a tent that will
fit. Put a couple thermarest mattresses on the deck and you're good to go.
 >> Stay informed about: Top heavy? 

Did I miss something here It's a POS sink it.

David wrote:

> I've got an old boat very much like this one:
>
> http://www.warnersdock.com/images/Freebies/fores15yel.JPG
>
> that I'm trying to make into a mini-houseboat,
> sort of like a camper. I only expect to have
> about 200-300 pounds in the roof and walls,
> and the roof will only be about 48" above
> the gunwale. The hull will weigh a *lot* more
> than what is added, so shouldn't that alone
> be enough to keep it from being top heavy
> and flipping over? If I add weight, like a
> couple hundred pound bags of sand down
> in the hull to counterballance, shouldn't
> that take care of it? If so, should they
> be placed on the sides, or in the center?
 >> Stay informed about: Top heavy? 

On Jul 3, 5:12 pm, "Bullschit...@hotmail.com"
<Bullschit....RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Did I miss something here It's a POS  sink it.
>
>
>
> David wrote:
> > I've got an old boat very much like this one:
>
> >http://www.warnersdock.com/images/Freebies/fores15yel.JPG
>
> > that I'm trying to make into a mini-houseboat,
> > sort of like a camper. I only expect to have
> > about 200-300 pounds in the roof and walls,
> > and the roof will only be about 48" above
> > the gunwale. The hull will weigh a *lot* more
> > than what is added, so shouldn't that alone
> > be enough to keep it from being top heavy
> > and flipping over? If I add weight, like a
> > couple hundred pound bags of sand down
> > in the hull to counterballance, shouldn't
> > that take care of it? If so, should they
> > be placed on the sides, or in the center?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, you missed the first line which suggests that this is not his
boat, but one with a similar hull configuration..His boat could be
spotless for all we know...
 >> Stay informed about: Top heavy? 

David,
Get a book on Naval Architecture and read about GM.
Every boat has the center of gravity above the center of buoyancy.
Weight added alone might not keep it upright.
Matt Colie


David wrote:
> I've got an old boat very much like this one:
>
> http://www.warnersdock.com/images/Freebies/fores15yel.JPG
>
> that I'm trying to make into a mini-houseboat,
> sort of like a camper. I only expect to have
> about 200-300 pounds in the roof and walls,
> and the roof will only be about 48" above
> the gunwale. The hull will weigh a *lot* more
> than what is added, so shouldn't that alone
> be enough to keep it from being top heavy
> and flipping over? If I add weight, like a
> couple hundred pound bags of sand down
> in the hull to counterbalance, shouldn't
> that take care of it? If so, should they
> be placed on the sides, or in the center?
 >> Stay informed about: Top heavy?