dock line size?

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:24:51 GMT, "Gary"
<spamfree*rgdixon@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
 >Is there a general rule of thumb for determining how strong your dock lines
 >should be?
 >
 >I have a 34 foot boat that weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of 19,000
 >lbs. I want to buy some dock lines to carry onboard for tying up at fuel
 >docks or the occasional restaurant etc. when I'm not in my slip. I really
 >don't want to have to untie the lines at my slip every time I leave, since
 >I'd have to find just the right adjustment again every time I return.
 >
 >There are LOTS of sizes and strengths of line out there. What should I
 >really be looking at?
=============================================

My old boat was about the same size and weight (33 ft 23,000#) and we
used 5/8 inch nylon lines for short term tie ups. For longer,
unattended docking I'd recommend 3/4 inch. My mooring lines were 7/8
with lots of chafing protection. Never had problems with any of that.

I once had a dock line break on a 34 ft sailboat in calm wind
conditions. It was 1/2 inch dacron braid (low stretch compared to
nylon). The breakage was caused by interaction of the boat with a
floating dock in response to a wake. The boat and dock were moving in
different directions and at different rates, causing the dock line to
snap like a rubberband with no warning. Fortunately I was next to the
boat when it happened and was able to quickly re-tie. All that is
offered by way of explanation for my conservative approach and use of
nylon line.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: dock line size? 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" <tomf123removethis.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:keasi09se1cie44n5e9pnjuv3kvivjo86t@4ax.com...

 > With all due respect, adjusting and inspecting your dock lines should
 > become a habit.
 >

One good storm is usually enough to make that lesson clear, especially if
one does not know how to tie spring lines.

I'll also add that no matter what size the boat, the owner should have
enough line to achieve proper throwing weight, and longer lines than would
appear necessary. At least once a week at the launch, I see some hapless
fool with 5 feet of line at bow & stern, trying to throw it 10 feet to
someone one the dock. I'll bet the money saved really feels good at that
moment.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: dock line size? 

"Wayne.B" <waynebatrecdotboats.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4j9si012ga4j21e8j5gr3qaorvgt976uqm@4ax.com...
 > On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:24:51 GMT, "Gary"
 > <spamfree*rgdixon@carolina.rr.com> wrote:
  > >Is there a general rule of thumb for determining how strong your dock
lines
  > >should be?
  > >
  > >I have a 34 foot boat that weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of 19,000
  > >lbs. I want to buy some dock lines to carry onboard for tying up at fuel
  > >docks or the occasional restaurant etc. when I'm not in my slip. I
really
  > >don't want to have to untie the lines at my slip every time I leave,
since
  > >I'd have to find just the right adjustment again every time I return.
  > >
  > >There are LOTS of sizes and strengths of line out there. What should I
  > >really be looking at?
 > =============================================
 >
 > My old boat was about the same size and weight (33 ft 23,000#) and we
 > used 5/8 inch nylon lines for short term tie ups. For longer,
 > unattended docking I'd recommend 3/4 inch. My mooring lines were 7/8
 > with lots of chafing protection. Never had problems with any of that.
 >
 > I once had a dock line break on a 34 ft sailboat in calm wind
 > conditions. It was 1/2 inch dacron braid (low stretch compared to
 > nylon). The breakage was caused by interaction of the boat with a
 > floating dock in response to a wake. The boat and dock were moving in
 > different directions and at different rates, causing the dock line to
 > snap like a rubberband with no warning. Fortunately I was next to the
 > boat when it happened and was able to quickly re-tie. All that is
 > offered by way of explanation for my conservative approach and use of
 > nylon line.

For temporary tieups I would use 1/2" at most. Easier to handle.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: dock line size? 

Gary wrote:
 > Is there a general rule of thumb for determining how strong your dock lines
 > should be?

Yes, The problem is that there are several rules of thumb and give
conflicting results. It also depends on what type of line you choose
(braid or laid).



 >
 > I have a 34 foot boat that weighs somewhere in the neighborhood of 19,000
 > lbs.

You should have 1/2" or 5/8" liness... personally I'd get 1/2" laid
(3-strand), check them often, and count on replacing them sooner, rather
than 5/8" left in place forever.

Get white dock lines, or at most white with some colored patern. They
are much more visible. Don't get the black ones, they look cool but they
are hard to see at night or in the rain. It's also more difficult to
evaluate them for chafe.

BTW I also put spliced loops in BOTH ends of all my dock lines, so that
when coming in to a dock, if a stranger wants to "help" I can hand him a
loop and not have to trust my boat to his unknown knot-tying skill.

Lines that are too thick are stronger, but they are also heavier and
more awkward to handle.

 > ... I want to buy some dock lines to carry onboard for tying up at fuel
 > docks or the occasional restaurant etc. when I'm not in my slip.

Umm, yeah. It's a safety issue... you need decent lines. Decent ground
tackle too.

 > ... I really
 > don't want to have to untie the lines at my slip every time I leave, since
 > I'd have to find just the right adjustment again every time I return.

This isn't particularly good reasoning. You should have a good set of
dock lines, you should check them often. Re-tying them is not so much
trouble, think what a PITA it would be if your boat broke free.

If you don't want to tie it up properly, then you should get a lift.

 >
 > There are LOTS of sizes and strengths of line out there. What should I
 > really be looking at?

You need 6 dock lines. 2 can be shorties, 20' or so. These will be used
for bow & stern breast lines, which don't need to be too long. Then you
need 2 spring lines, which need to be *at least* the length + the beam
of the boat. You won't always use all that length, but the times when
you do need it, there is no substitute (other than expensive fiberglass
repair & increased insurance rates). Then you need 2 more emergency
lines the same as your spring lines, or one double length one + a third
shorty. If you tie up in a slip to two outer pilings, with crossed stern
lines, you'll need two intermediate length lines for the stern, but they
will be of less use elsewhere when tying up.

This is probably more than you want to know, but less than you really
need to know. Got a copy of Chapman's?

Fair Skies
Doug King<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: dock line size? 

"DSK" <dsk.RemoveThis@dontbotherme.com> wrote in message
news:WPqXc.36605$0o5.22998@bignews1.bellsouth.net...

 > Got a copy of Chapman's?

By law, every boat should should come with a laminated card tied to
someplace conspicuous, telling the new owner about the Chapman book. I have
a newer one, but while packing to move to my new house, I found the copy my
dad bought me in 1968. It's got a whole chapter on proper uniforms for
hanging out at the yacht club. What a stitch! <!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: dock line size? 

On 8/26/2004 12:33 PM, Doug Kanter wrote:

 > "DSK" <dsk.DeleteThis@dontbotherme.com> wrote in message
 > news:WPqXc.36605$0o5.22998@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
 >
 >
  >>Got a copy of Chapman's?
 >
 >
 > By law, every boat should should come with a laminated card tied to
 > someplace conspicuous, telling the new owner about the Chapman book. I have
 > a newer one, but while packing to move to my new house, I found the copy my
 > dad bought me in 1968. It's got a whole chapter on proper uniforms for
 > hanging out at the yacht club. What a stitch!


We've got a 1942 edition on board our Chris. Some of the stuff is pretty
funny (Poly-whatsit fenders? Everyone knows fenders are made out of
hemp!), but the basics don't really change.


--
~/Garth - 1966 Glastron V-142 Skiflite: "Blue-Boat"
"There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing about in boats."
-Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: dock line size? 

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 19:33:15 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
<ancientangler RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:

 >"DSK" <dsk RemoveThis @dontbotherme.com> wrote in message
 >news:WPqXc.36605$0o5.22998@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
 >
  >> Got a copy of Chapman's?
 >
 >By law, every boat should should come with a laminated card tied to
 >someplace conspicuous, telling the new owner about the Chapman book. I have
 >a newer one, but while packing to move to my new house, I found the copy my
 >dad bought me in 1968. It's got a whole chapter on proper uniforms for
 >hanging out at the yacht club. What a stitch!

I have my father's Blue Jacket Manual from his hitch in the USCG in
1936.

It's very different from today's Blue Jacket Manual, although some
things are very similar.

Later,

Tom<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: dock line size? 

I have a 1956 edition and a 1979 edition talk about a difference.



"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%VqXc.4012$_m.1252@news02.roc.ny...
 > "DSK" <dsk DeleteThis @dontbotherme.com> wrote in message
 > news:WPqXc.36605$0o5.22998@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
 >
  >> Got a copy of Chapman's?
 >
 > By law, every boat should should come with a laminated card tied to
 > someplace conspicuous, telling the new owner about the Chapman book. I
 > have
 > a newer one, but while packing to move to my new house, I found the copy
 > my
 > dad bought me in 1968. It's got a whole chapter on proper uniforms for
 > hanging out at the yacht club. What a stitch!
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: dock line size? 

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 19:25:56 GMT, "Calif Bill"
<bmckee.nospam DeleteThis @ix.netcom.com> wrote:

  >>Wayne B wrote:
  >> I once had a dock line break on a 34 ft sailboat in calm wind
  >> conditions. It was 1/2 inch dacron braid (low stretch compared to
  >> nylon). The breakage was caused by interaction of the boat with a
  >> floating dock in response to a wake. The boat and dock were moving in
  >> different directions and at different rates, causing the dock line to
  >> snap like a rubberband with no warning. Fortunately I was next to the
  >> boat when it happened and was able to quickly re-tie. All that is
  >> offered by way of explanation for my conservative approach and use of
  >> nylon line.
 >

 >For temporary tieups I would use 1/2" at most. Easier to handle.

===================================================

Maybe for a gas dock tie up where you're standing next to the boat.
Most gas docks have their own lines however. My sailboat that broke
the 1/2 inch line was only 10,000 #s. The wake wasn't supposed to be
there but it happened. Assuming you don't want to carry two sets of
lines, and would ocassionally like to duck into a restaurant, etc.,
I'll stick with my 5/8 recommendation.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: dock line size? 

"Doug Kanter" <ancientangler.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:E0qXc.4008$wl.1968@news02.roc.ny...
 > enough line to achieve proper throwing weight, and longer lines than would
 > appear necessary. At least once a week at the launch, I see some hapless
 > fool with 5 feet of line at bow & stern, trying to throw it 10 feet to
 > someone one the dock. I'll bet the money saved really feels good at that
 > moment.
 >
I remember reading somewhere (Power Squadron course?) that your bow line
shouldn't be longer than your boat length. This way, if the line falls
overboard while the boat is making way, the line can't get caught in the
propeller.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: dock line size? 

Don White wrote:

 > "Doug Kanter" <ancientangler DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
 > news:E0qXc.4008$wl.1968@news02.roc.ny...
 >
  >>enough line to achieve proper throwing weight, and longer lines than would
  >>appear necessary. At least once a week at the launch, I see some hapless
  >>fool with 5 feet of line at bow & stern, trying to throw it 10 feet to
  >>someone one the dock. I'll bet the money saved really feels good at that
  >>moment.
  >>
 >
 > I remember reading somewhere (Power Squadron course?) that your bow line
 > shouldn't be longer than your boat length. This way, if the line falls
 > overboard while the boat is making way, the line can't get caught in the
 > propeller.
 >
 >
If the boat is a jet it will need to be shorted yet My little
brother sucked one up on his Sea-Rayder soap-dish jet boat. Had real
good line. Bent the impeller.

Capt Jack R..<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: dock line size? 

Good tip!


"Don White" <white RemoveThis @nsknospm.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:oJtXc.101352$Np3.4901750@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
 >
 > "Doug Kanter" <ancientangler RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
 > news:E0qXc.4008$wl.1968@news02.roc.ny...
  > > enough line to achieve proper throwing weight, and longer lines than
would
  > > appear necessary. At least once a week at the launch, I see some hapless
  > > fool with 5 feet of line at bow & stern, trying to throw it 10 feet to
  > > someone one the dock. I'll bet the money saved really feels good at that
  > > moment.
  > >
 > I remember reading somewhere (Power Squadron course?) that your bow line
 > shouldn't be longer than your boat length. This way, if the line falls
 > overboard while the boat is making way, the line can't get caught in the
 > propeller.
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: dock line size? 

  > > ... I really
  > > don't want to have to untie the lines at my slip every time I leave,
since
  > > I'd have to find just the right adjustment again every time I return.
 >
 > This isn't particularly good reasoning. You should have a good set of
 > dock lines, you should check them often. Re-tying them is not so much
 > trouble, think what a PITA it would be if your boat broke free.
 >

Thanks for the advice Doug!

I guess what I was trying to say here and maybe didn't do it as clearly as I
should have is that I know that I need to adjust and inspect my lines often,
but I need additional lines so that I don't have to TAKE the lines from my
slip with me every time I go out. I'd rather leave them in place and adjust
/ inspect them as necessary, but not carry them with me. I'll buy the
necessary lines and carry them onboard, but I was just curious about the
size of line that I should buy. I have 5/8", 3 strand at the dock, but I
didn't buy that line. It came with the boat from the previous owner and
yes...it is in very good shape. I really just wondered what the consensus
was about that size of line...adequate, overkill, too small. It sounds like
it's adequate.

Thanks again for taking the time to write that long reply too Doug, and
thanks to everyone else who took the time to answer this question as well!

Gary<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: dock line size?