A disturbing omen.

Some states (such as WA) still require you to display an annual state decal
but no registration number.

The federal documentation process reminds you that 'your state' may require
this.


--
My opinion and experience. FWIW

Steve
s/v Good Intentions
 >> Stay informed about: A disturbing omen. 

stevej <vtboat RemoveThis @sover.net> lifted the trapdoor, peered around and wrote:

 >When is somebody going to contest this sh-t in a court of law?

lol .... I don't know about the States, but here in the UK you can't
actually contest a Law, in a Court of Law The sole purpose of the Court
is to enforce the law.

The democratic process is the way laws are changed. By lobbying and voting,
or by direct action as in the UK "Poll Tax"

steveb<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A disturbing omen. 

Steveb,

We can do it both ways. Laws in the US can be challenged in court
usually on constitutional grounds and we can lobby the state and federal
legislators to change or repeal them. The first option is a check
against the second cause I don't think our elected officials have ever
repealed a law in 200 years.

Ron
 >> Stay informed about: A disturbing omen. 

That would not work in Georgia. The HIN is required for USCG
documentation and there are only two ways to get a HIN. Either register
the boat as homebuilt and let the state assign a it or get a
manufacturer's prefix from the USCG. If I register as a manufacturer
with the USCG I will immediately be classified that way and the DOR will
say I am converting a product to personal use and make me pay sales tax
on the market value of the boat rather than material cost.

The agent that writes my homeowner's policy had to go on oxygen when I
told him about the boat. Rutu has a full blown buildres risk yacht
policy. All I really needed was fire and windstorm coverage but if
someone manages to sneek a crane and a lowboy into the backyard and
steel the boat I am covered. Also, even though I am 150 miles from any
water deep enough to float it, if it sinks, I'm covered.

Insurance companies are just not equipped to deal with crazy
boatbuilders like me.

Jim Woodward wrote:
 > I'm not at all sure you need to do a state registration before you
 > document the vessel with the Feds -- you may have done more current
 > research than I, but I think all you need to do is fill out a CG1261
 > as the builder. see
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/faq.htm#10</font" target="_blank">http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/faq.htm#10</font</a>>
 >
 > Certainly back in the Dark Ages when I was building boats for a very
 > modest living, that was all we did -- no one ever went to the state
 > first. I know the rules have changed some, but I can't imagine say,
 > Washburn Doughty, getting a Maine registration on one of their tugs
 > before they delivered it....
 >
 > Of course, in Massachusetts, at least, this won't help the sales tax
 > issue -- the mass Department of Revenue follows new documentations and
 > sends out letters.
 >
 > I had a good moment on that subject with regard to Sweetwater -- was
 > able to reply (from Papeete) that we had bought the boat in Rhode
 > Island and that she was now in Tahiti and that the Massachusetts use
 > tax probably didn't apply.
 >
 > In either case, sooner would be better, as you can certainly make
 > improvements on your boat without paying sales tax on the labor. Make
 > sure your insurance agent knows, because that may be the moment when
 > she goes from being personal property on your homeowners insurance to
 > being a boat requiring her own policy.
 >
 > Jim Woodward
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.mvFintry.com</font" target="_blank">www.mvFintry.com</font</a>>
 >
 > Glenn Ashmore <gashmore.TakeThisOut@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<bv2ib.74207$sp2.30015@lakeread04>...
 >
  >>Last month I bought one of the company's older fleet cars for #2
  >>daughter. Not exactly a "sweetheart deal" but definitely most favored
  >>nation. Sent the title in for transfer and got a new tag. This
  >>week I get a letter from the GA revenuers wanting to know the sales
  >>price and asking for their pound of sales tax flesh. Casual sales of
  >>cars have never been taxed before so I did some checking. It seems that
  >>because the politicians are hungry for money in this budget crunch the D
  >>of R has finally linked there computer system to Public Safety and are
  >>tracking every title.
  >>
  >>What has this to do with boatbuilding? DNR will be linked by next year.
  >> Most of my material was purchased out of state or on eBay so I am
  >>going to get hit bad. I think I will try to register before they get
  >>linked.
  >>
  >>This is just Georgia but most states are hunting for revenue now so
  >>check out what your state is doing and plan accordingly if you have a
  >>big project and be sure to have your receipts carefully documented
  >>before you go to register your boat and get a HIN.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.rutuonline.com" target="_blank">http://www.rutuonline.com</a>
Shameless Commercial Division: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.spade-anchor-us.com" target="_blank">http://www.spade-anchor-us.com</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A disturbing omen. 

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:19:10 -0400, Glenn Ashmore
<gashmore.RemoveThis@mindspring.com> wrote something
.......and in reply I say!:

Ah! I still do have a memory then! I recalled your rant about the
little encounter with the brick...<G>

  >> This was a Hyundai then? <G>
 >
 >No. This was to REPLACE a Hyundai. I sure hope all those ships that
 >Hyundai Heavy Indutries turns out are made of something more substantial
 >than the stamped tin they build their cars out of.

******************************************************************************************
Whenever you have to prove to yourself that you are
not something, you probably are.

Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music
Please remove ns from my header address to reply via email
!!
<")
_/ )
( )
_//- \__/<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A disturbing omen. 

Insurance -- Fintry's policy very carefully does not cover her if
stolen by land when she's hauled out. 79'x 21'x 27' (total height),
150 tons, and someone's going to steal her on a trailer? If someone
manages to do it, it's my loss.

It ain't just you that they don't deal with intelligently. You should
have told him Rutu was a tree house with a novel shape (design by
Frank Lloyd Wrong).....

HIN -- MFR status. I know people who have built boats as a
manufacturer, or bought boats as a dealer, and then promptly put them
up for sale -- who knows, it might take years to sell at a fair price,
and meanwhile, you have to demo it from time to time. Of course,
you're eventually going to end up in a no-tax state, aren't you? (I
should add that we'll probably end up paying Massachusetts tax for
Fintry).

Second possibility is to register with the USCG as a manufacturer.
Does your DOR talk to the USCG? If it doesn't talk to its own state
boat registry that seems unlikely. Your DOR might never notice any of
it.

If necessary actually have your business sell the boat to you at cost
(only book cost is materials). This would be worth doing an LLC for
(assuming your anchor business isn't already a separate entity).
You'd want proper sets of books for the LLC, and your money going in
as a loan....

In any case, do it now -- then your labor for further improvements is
certainly exempt.

Jim Woodward
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.mvFintry.com" target="_blank">www.mvFintry.com</a>




Glenn Ashmore <gashmore.TakeThisOut@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<DwBib.74551$sp2.67651@lakeread04>...
 > That would not work in Georgia. The HIN is required for USCG
 > documentation and there are only two ways to get a HIN. Either register
 > the boat as homebuilt and let the state assign a it or get a
 > manufacturer's prefix from the USCG. If I register as a manufacturer
 > with the USCG I will immediately be classified that way and the DOR will
 > say I am converting a product to personal use and make me pay sales tax
 > on the market value of the boat rather than material cost.
 >
 > The agent that writes my homeowner's policy had to go on oxygen when I
 > told him about the boat. Rutu has a full blown buildres risk yacht
 > policy. All I really needed was fire and windstorm coverage but if
 > someone manages to sneek a crane and a lowboy into the backyard and
 > steel the boat I am covered. Also, even though I am 150 miles from any
 > water deep enough to float it, if it sinks, I'm covered.
 >
 > Insurance companies are just not equipped to deal with crazy
 > boatbuilders like me.
 >
 > Jim Woodward wrote:
  > > I'm not at all sure you need to do a state registration before you
  > > document the vessel with the Feds -- you may have done more current
  > > research than I, but I think all you need to do is fill out a CG1261
  > > as the builder. see
<font color=green>  > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/faq.htm#10</font" target="_blank">http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-m/vdoc/faq.htm#10</font</a>>
  > >
  > > Certainly back in the Dark Ages when I was building boats for a very
  > > modest living, that was all we did -- no one ever went to the state
  > > first. I know the rules have changed some, but I can't imagine say,
  > > Washburn Doughty, getting a Maine registration on one of their tugs
  > > before they delivered it....
  > >
  > > Of course, in Massachusetts, at least, this won't help the sales tax
  > > issue -- the mass Department of Revenue follows new documentations and
  > > sends out letters.
  > >
  > > I had a good moment on that subject with regard to Sweetwater -- was
  > > able to reply (from Papeete) that we had bought the boat in Rhode
  > > Island and that she was now in Tahiti and that the Massachusetts use
  > > tax probably didn't apply.
  > >
  > > In either case, sooner would be better, as you can certainly make
  > > improvements on your boat without paying sales tax on the labor. Make
  > > sure your insurance agent knows, because that may be the moment when
  > > she goes from being personal property on your homeowners insurance to
  > > being a boat requiring her own policy.
  > >
  > > Jim Woodward
<font color=green>  > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.mvFintry.com</font" target="_blank">www.mvFintry.com</font</a>>
  > >
  > > Glenn Ashmore <gashmore.TakeThisOut@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:<bv2ib.74207$sp2.30015@lakeread04>...
  > >
   > >>Last month I bought one of the company's older fleet cars for #2
   > >>daughter. Not exactly a "sweetheart deal" but definitely most favored
   > >>nation. Sent the title in for transfer and got a new tag. This
   > >>week I get a letter from the GA revenuers wanting to know the sales
   > >>price and asking for their pound of sales tax flesh. Casual sales of
   > >>cars have never been taxed before so I did some checking. It seems that
   > >>because the politicians are hungry for money in this budget crunch the D
   > >>of R has finally linked there computer system to Public Safety and are
   > >>tracking every title.
   > >>
   > >>What has this to do with boatbuilding? DNR will be linked by next year.
   > >> Most of my material was purchased out of state or on eBay so I am
   > >>going to get hit bad. I think I will try to register before they get
   > >>linked.
   > >>
   > >>This is just Georgia but most states are hunting for revenue now so
   > >>check out what your state is doing and plan accordingly if you have a
   > >>big project and be sure to have your receipts carefully documented
   > >>before you go to register your boat and get a HIN.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A disturbing omen. 

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:18:04 -0700, "Steve" <esteve DeleteThis @hctc.com> wrote:

 >Some states (such as WA) still require you to display an annual state decal
 >but no registration number.
 >
 >The federal documentation process reminds you that 'your state' may require
 >this.


The BoatUS web site has a list of state requirements for documented
boats that ply their waters enough to need registration. It is not
always accurate. The NY listing says 30 days.

However, the NY state gov site says 90 continuous days of use in NYS
waters before a documented boat needs to register.

Check with the relevant state as well as Boat US.


Rodney Myrvaagnes Opionated old geezer

Faith-based economics: It's deja voodoo all over again<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A disturbing omen. 

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:49:24 +0100, steveb <me.RemoveThis@privacy.net> wrote
something
.......and in reply I say!:

lol. You can contest the _application_ of a law (which could easily be
the shit being referred to) anytime People have test cases, that if
they win, will set a precedent that decides how a lot of stuff is
applied in future. This happens a lot with tax. It also happens with
murder, if the accused can claim some new way that the process of
their arrest or trial was flawed.

 >stevej <vtboat.RemoveThis@sover.net> lifted the trapdoor, peered around and wrote:
 >
  >>When is somebody going to contest this sh-t in a court of law?
 >
 >lol .... I don't know about the States, but here in the UK you can't
 >actually contest a Law, in a Court of Law The sole purpose of the Court
 >is to enforce the law.
 >
 >The democratic process is the way laws are changed. By lobbying and voting,
 >or by direct action as in the UK "Poll Tax"
 >
 >steveb

******************************************************************************************
Whenever you have to prove to yourself that you are
not something, you probably are.

Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music
Please remove ns from my header address to reply via email
!!
<")
_/ )
( )
_//- \__/<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A disturbing omen. 

In 1979 I left Belgium with no intentions of ever returning to live or work
there exactly for that reason.
They began to charge a 33% sales tax on DIY activites like painting your
house or building a boat.
In my case, the tax on the estimated value of my boat was going to cost more
than all the materials invested in the project!
I found a loop hole and registered my 40' sailboat as a freighter but that
loophloe was closed very quickly.
Since I don't want to move from the US, I am left with the choice of voting
for less taxes.


--
Jacques
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.bateau.com" target="_blank">http://www.bateau.com</a>

"Glenn Ashmore" <gashmore RemoveThis @mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:bv2ib.74207$sp2.30015@lakeread04...
 > Last month I bought one of the company's older fleet cars for #2
 > daughter. Not exactly a "sweetheart deal" but definitely most favored
 > nation. Sent the title in for transfer and got a new tag. This
 > week I get a letter from the GA revenuers wanting to know the sales
 > price and asking for their pound of sales tax flesh. Casual sales of
 > cars have never been taxed before so I did some checking. It seems that
 > because the politicians are hungry for money in this budget crunch the D
 > of R has finally linked there computer system to Public Safety and are
 > tracking every title.
 >
 > What has this to do with boatbuilding? DNR will be linked by next year.
 > Most of my material was purchased out of state or on eBay so I am
 > going to get hit bad. I think I will try to register before they get
 > linked.
 >
 > This is just Georgia but most states are hunting for revenue now so
 > check out what your state is doing and plan accordingly if you have a
 > big project and be sure to have your receipts carefully documented
 > before you go to register your boat and get a HIN.
 >
 > --
 > Glenn Ashmore
 >
 > I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
<font color=purple> > there of) at: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.rutuonline.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.rutuonline.com</font</a>>
<font color=purple> > Shameless Commercial Division: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.spade-anchor-us.com</font" target="_blank">http://www.spade-anchor-us.com</font</a>>
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A disturbing omen. 

See, there is a justification for restoring wolves to the wild after all! A
tax advantage, no less

Damn glad you mentioned that one. We got a real mean and hungry pack of
coyotes lurking about for sure!

Wonder when us hunters will start receivng a tax bill for the annual deer
harvest?

Fred

"Keith" <klREMOVEemmons.RemoveThis@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:bmbh23$p57@library2.airnews.net...
 > You laugh. My father was subjected to a TCMP IRS audit years ago. They
asked
 > a lot of stupid questions, including one about our cattle. My dad told him
 > we slaughtered two each year for meat. The auditor's face lit up... "oh,
you
 > didn't report that as income". Seems that if you buy a cow and then later
 > eat it, you have to report the retail value of the butchered meat less the
 > cost of the cow as income. Geez.
 >
 > After that, two cows yearly were killed and eaten by wolves, making them
tax
 > write-offs. Funny how people react, isn't it?
 >
 > "steveb" <me.RemoveThis@privacy.net> wrote in message
 > news:sm6iovkpqhsha7o96slj3ne5g1iaab6orp@4ax.com...
  > > "Steve" <esteve.RemoveThis@hctc.com> lifted the trapdoor, peered around and wrote:
  > >
   > > >I won't say what I paid in sales tax, but it would have paid for a new
 > main.
  > >
  > > If I cook myself a meal in your State, how much tax do I need to pay
 > before
  > > it is eaten?
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A disturbing omen. 

Remember who the courts get their money from. Goood luck!

"stevej" <vtboat.TakeThisOut@sover.net> wrote in message
news:3F8A200E.6070104@sover.net...
 > So if I cut down a tree on my own land and whittle it into a boat,
 > I have to pay sales tax on it when I register it?
 > When is somebody going to contest this sh-t in a court of law?
 > SteveJ
 >
 > Glenn Ashmore wrote:
  > > Last month I bought one of the company's older fleet cars for #2
  > > daughter. Not exactly a "sweetheart deal" but definitely most favored
  > > nation. Sent the title in for transfer and got a new tag. This
  > > week I get a letter from the GA revenuers wanting to know the sales
  > > price and asking for their pound of sales tax flesh. Casual sales of
  > > cars have never been taxed before so I did some checking. It seems that
  > > because the politicians are hungry for money in this budget crunch the D
  > > of R has finally linked there computer system to Public Safety and are
  > > tracking every title.
....<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A disturbing omen. 

Au contaire, for a PRICE they will insure the dead against further bodily
injury or a Texan against a hail storm

"Glenn Ashmore" <gashmore.DeleteThis@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:DwBib.74551$sp2.67651@lakeread04...
 > That would not work in Georgia. The HIN is required for USCG
 > documentation and there are only two ways to get a HIN. Either register
 > the boat as homebuilt and let the state assign a it or get a
 > manufacturer's prefix from the USCG. If I register as a manufacturer
 > with the USCG I will immediately be classified that way and the DOR will
 > say I am converting a product to personal use and make me pay sales tax
 > on the market value of the boat rather than material cost.
 >
 > The agent that writes my homeowner's policy had to go on oxygen when I
 > told him about the boat. Rutu has a full blown buildres risk yacht
 > policy. All I really needed was fire and windstorm coverage but if
 > someone manages to sneek a crane and a lowboy into the backyard and
 > steel the boat I am covered. Also, even though I am 150 miles from any
 > water deep enough to float it, if it sinks, I'm covered.
 >
 > Insurance companies are just not equipped to deal with crazy
 > boatbuilders like me.
....<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A disturbing omen. 

You and the "wolf guy" need to get together, move to Massatwoshits, and kick
some A__!

"Jim Woodward" <jameslwoodward RemoveThis @attbi.com> wrote in message
news:b3a8520c.0310131306.4effa9c7@posting.google.com...
 > Insurance -- Fintry's policy very carefully does not cover her if
 > stolen by land when she's hauled out. 79'x 21'x 27' (total height),
 > 150 tons, and someone's going to steal her on a trailer? If someone
 > manages to do it, it's my loss.
 >
 > It ain't just you that they don't deal with intelligently. You should
 > have told him Rutu was a tree house with a novel shape (design by
 > Frank Lloyd Wrong).....
....<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: A disturbing omen.