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External
Since: Sep 07, 2007
Posts: 722
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(Msg. 31) Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Even the geek who has everything... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>boats (more info?)
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:50:49 -0400, "Eisboch" <nothere RemoveThis @nowhere.com>
wrote:
>
><salty RemoveThis @dog.com> wrote in message
>news:8vtla4plfhaak7i04po0j6tculgmppjguu@4ax.com...
>
>>>
>>
>> Yes, and solid state pre amps and power amps are cleaner than tube
>> amps, as well. Clean and accurate reproduction is not necessarily the
>> objective with tube amplifiers for musical instrument amplification.
>>
>> How the power is delivered to tubes can measurably affect things such
>> as rise time and decay. I'm not promising that you can actually hear
>> the difference, but purists will swear they can even if it is a
>> physiological impossibility.
>>
>
>If you think about it though, the "power" is really being delivered by one
>or more big filter capacitors. I never asked one if it cared how the power
>got there. At that point, DC is DC.
>
>Eisboch
>
You would think so, wouldn't you! Bear in mind that a vacuum tube is a
mechanical structure and not all of the power is part of the signal
path. You have to account for uneven heat, vibration and other
anomalies that all go into what come out. The vagaries of a wimpy,
tube rectified power supply, with hand rolled paper caps should not be
underestimated.
Purists will also insist that point to point wiring sounds different
than circuit board construction. They may be right about that in some
cases. Sounds crazy, though... |
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External
Since: Sep 24, 2007
Posts: 673
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(Msg. 32) Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Even the geek who has everything... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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<salty.DeleteThis@dog.com> wrote in message
news:0vula4hktik9a2a34p1r4rj269gpp77efv@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:50:49 -0400, "Eisboch" <nothere.DeleteThis@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>><salty.DeleteThis@dog.com> wrote in message
>>news:8vtla4plfhaak7i04po0j6tculgmppjguu@4ax.com...
>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, and solid state pre amps and power amps are cleaner than tube
>>> amps, as well. Clean and accurate reproduction is not necessarily the
>>> objective with tube amplifiers for musical instrument amplification.
>>>
>>> How the power is delivered to tubes can measurably affect things such
>>> as rise time and decay. I'm not promising that you can actually hear
>>> the difference, but purists will swear they can even if it is a
>>> physiological impossibility.
>>>
>>
>>If you think about it though, the "power" is really being delivered by one
>>or more big filter capacitors. I never asked one if it cared how the
>>power
>>got there. At that point, DC is DC.
>>
>>Eisboch
>>
>
> You would think so, wouldn't you! Bear in mind that a vacuum tube is a
> mechanical structure and not all of the power is part of the signal
> path. You have to account for uneven heat, vibration and other
> anomalies that all go into what come out. The vagaries of a wimpy,
> tube rectified power supply, with hand rolled paper caps should not be
> underestimated.
>
> Purists will also insist that point to point wiring sounds different
> than circuit board construction. They may be right about that in some
> cases. Sounds crazy, though...
>
I'll buy into the point to point wiring. An important critera used in high
quality tube amps was to design the chassis so the signal wiring was as far
away as possible from the power wiring. And, if you noted any funny noises
or distortion, you could always re-route the wires.
As for the power supply, I am still not convinced a tube rectifier is going
to sound (or display on an O'scope) any different than solid state, if
measured at the filter stage or any B+ test point. The audio amplifiers
certainly are different between solid state and tubes and that is readily
noticeable, even by people with tin ears.
But 300 volts DC?
Eisboch |
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Since: Mar 08, 2008
Posts: 455
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(Msg. 33) Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Even the geek who has everything... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:41:57 -0400, salty.TakeThisOut@dog.com wrote:
>On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:19:00 -0400, "Eisboch" <rce.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>
>><salty.TakeThisOut@dog.com> wrote in message
>>news:82kla492gl48vbctjggtgvs0gjk6l9d3id@4ax.com...
>>
>>> On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:45:33 -0400, "Eisboch" <rce.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Does it have the original tube rectifier, or the later replacement?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Hold on .... I'll check ....
>>>>
>>>>Must be a solid state (brick) rectifier. It has 10 tubes total .... (4)
>>>>6L6's, (2) 12AT7's, (4) 12AX7's.
>>>>
>>>>Eisboch
>>>>
>>>
>>> Purists would find that horrifying!
>>>
>>> I have an old Super Reverb black face from around that era. Less power
>>> than a twin, and four 10" speakers. Personally, I think it was the
>>> best sounding guitar amp Fender ever produced. Something about the
>>> acoustic coupling of the 4-10" speakers just works really well for
>>> guitar. Amp-wise, it's basically just a Tremolux with reverb added.
>>> Like the other amps of that era, including the twin, it lacks channel
>>> switching, which makes it less than ideal for playing out. At 35
>>> watts, it really isn't loud enough anyway, unless mic'ed through a PA.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Last night I was pleasantly surprised. Over the past year I've redeveloped
>>an interest in guitars and have collected a few, including amps. I enjoy
>>the different sound and play "feel" of the guitar types and amp
>>combinations.
>>
>>Two of the guitars are Taylor acoustic/electrics, a 6 string and a 12
>>string. When played through my old Marshall Valvestat, the solid sate
>>Fender or the Vox amps, these guitars sounded horrible. So, I visited my
>>local music shop and bought a Kustom acoustic guitar amp and the Taylors
>>sound nice through it.
>>
>>Last night I tried the Taylors plugged into the "Normal" channel of the
>>Fender Twin. Absolutely beautiful sound ... nice, rich, full and clean. I
>>was really surprised.
>>
>>I haven't tried the EC "Blackie" yet. I suspect it will sound good.
>
>Strat+Twin is one of the classic combinations.
Strat and anything is a classic combination. :>)
I have an orignial Bandmaster - I wish I played more than I do. >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... |
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External
Since: Sep 07, 2007
Posts: 722
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(Msg. 34) Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Even the geek who has everything... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:03:43 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
<email.DeleteThis@swsportsremove.org> wrote:
>On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:41:57 -0400, salty.DeleteThis@dog.com wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:19:00 -0400, "Eisboch" <rce.DeleteThis@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><salty.DeleteThis@dog.com> wrote in message
>>>news:82kla492gl48vbctjggtgvs0gjk6l9d3id@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:45:33 -0400, "Eisboch" <rce.DeleteThis@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does it have the original tube rectifier, or the later replacement?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Hold on .... I'll check ....
>>>>>
>>>>>Must be a solid state (brick) rectifier. It has 10 tubes total .... (4)
>>>>>6L6's, (2) 12AT7's, (4) 12AX7's.
>>>>>
>>>>>Eisboch
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Purists would find that horrifying!
>>>>
>>>> I have an old Super Reverb black face from around that era. Less power
>>>> than a twin, and four 10" speakers. Personally, I think it was the
>>>> best sounding guitar amp Fender ever produced. Something about the
>>>> acoustic coupling of the 4-10" speakers just works really well for
>>>> guitar. Amp-wise, it's basically just a Tremolux with reverb added.
>>>> Like the other amps of that era, including the twin, it lacks channel
>>>> switching, which makes it less than ideal for playing out. At 35
>>>> watts, it really isn't loud enough anyway, unless mic'ed through a PA.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Last night I was pleasantly surprised. Over the past year I've redeveloped
>>>an interest in guitars and have collected a few, including amps. I enjoy
>>>the different sound and play "feel" of the guitar types and amp
>>>combinations.
>>>
>>>Two of the guitars are Taylor acoustic/electrics, a 6 string and a 12
>>>string. When played through my old Marshall Valvestat, the solid sate
>>>Fender or the Vox amps, these guitars sounded horrible. So, I visited my
>>>local music shop and bought a Kustom acoustic guitar amp and the Taylors
>>>sound nice through it.
>>>
>>>Last night I tried the Taylors plugged into the "Normal" channel of the
>>>Fender Twin. Absolutely beautiful sound ... nice, rich, full and clean. I
>>>was really surprised.
>>>
>>>I haven't tried the EC "Blackie" yet. I suspect it will sound good.
>>
>>Strat+Twin is one of the classic combinations.
>
>Strat and anything is a classic combination. :>)
>
>I have an orignial Bandmaster - I wish I played more than I do.
What do you mean by an "original bandmaster"? You mean the one piece
combo version? I had a 1963 blond bandmaster (piggy-back) that I
bought new. Had to order it direct from Fender because there were no
dealers in my area. Came by freight train! I loved that amp until I
used a borrowed bassman at a gig. The 2-12 piggy-back bassman was a
great guitar amp, and sounded better to me than my Bandmaster. >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... |
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External
Since: Jul 11, 2007
Posts: 239
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(Msg. 35) Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:40 pm
Post subject: Re: Even the geek who has everything... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:19:00 -0400, "Eisboch" <rce RemoveThis @nowhere.com> wrote:
>
><salty RemoveThis @dog.com> wrote in message
>news:82kla492gl48vbctjggtgvs0gjk6l9d3id@4ax.com...
>
>> On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:45:33 -0400, "Eisboch" <rce RemoveThis @nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Does it have the original tube rectifier, or the later replacement?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Hold on .... I'll check ....
>>>
>>>Must be a solid state (brick) rectifier. It has 10 tubes total .... (4)
>>>6L6's, (2) 12AT7's, (4) 12AX7's.
>>>
>>>Eisboch
>>>
>>
>> Purists would find that horrifying!
>>
>> I have an old Super Reverb black face from around that era. Less power
>> than a twin, and four 10" speakers. Personally, I think it was the
>> best sounding guitar amp Fender ever produced. Something about the
>> acoustic coupling of the 4-10" speakers just works really well for
>> guitar. Amp-wise, it's basically just a Tremolux with reverb added.
>> Like the other amps of that era, including the twin, it lacks channel
>> switching, which makes it less than ideal for playing out. At 35
>> watts, it really isn't loud enough anyway, unless mic'ed through a PA.
>>
>>
>
>Last night I was pleasantly surprised. Over the past year I've redeveloped
>an interest in guitars and have collected a few, including amps. I enjoy
>the different sound and play "feel" of the guitar types and amp
>combinations.
>
>Two of the guitars are Taylor acoustic/electrics, a 6 string and a 12
>string. When played through my old Marshall Valvestat, the solid sate
>Fender or the Vox amps, these guitars sounded horrible. So, I visited my
>local music shop and bought a Kustom acoustic guitar amp and the Taylors
>sound nice through it.
>
>Last night I tried the Taylors plugged into the "Normal" channel of the
>Fender Twin. Absolutely beautiful sound ... nice, rich, full and clean. I
>was really surprised.
>
>I haven't tried the EC "Blackie" yet. I suspect it will sound good.
About 1975 I bought tube pre and power amps, 75 a channel, to go with
the Klipschorns. They were the best you could get at the time. They
have since improved the solid state ones.
Casady >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... |
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External
Since: Oct 12, 2007
Posts: 1134
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(Msg. 36) Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Even the geek who has everything... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Aug 19, 7:04 am, hk <payer33....TakeThisOut@mypacks.net> wrote:
> ...is unlikely to have this toy:
>
> http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/9836/
>
> Only $1589.
>
> --
> I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do
> something. And because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do
> the something that I can do. What I can do, I should do. And what I
> should do, by the grace of God, I will do.
>
> — Edward Everett Hale (1822-1909)
Wow. and it's not even ergonomic >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... |
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External
Since: Oct 12, 2007
Posts: 1134
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(Msg. 37) Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Even the geek who has everything... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Aug 19, 7:48 am, "Eisboch" <r... RemoveThis @nowhere.com> wrote:
> "Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald P.
> Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " <nospample... RemoveThis @here.com> wrote in messagenews:S72dnXHEG803IDfVnZ2dnUVZ_qXinZ2d@comcast.com...
>
>
>
> > Eisboch wrote:
> >> "hk" <payer33... RemoveThis @mypacks.net> wrote in message
> >>news:-7CdnWKCxfZeKzfVnZ2dnUVZ_gidnZ2d@comcast.com...
> >>> ...is unlikely to have this toy:
>
> >>>http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/9836/
>
> >>> Only $1589.
>
> >> This geek much prefers this ....
>
> >> (new release of classic, 1965 twin .... 100% vacuum tube powered)
>
> >>http://www.eisboch.com/65twin.jpg
>
> >> Eisboch
>
> > I wondered why this was not done earlier.
>
> > Do the "experts" say this sounds the same as the 1965 version?
>
> I don't know. Sounds the same to me, but I am no expert.
> It has not been redesigned. Just re-released as a product. Same cabinet
> design, same Jensen "special" speakers, same tube pre-amps, reverb drivers
> and 6L6 output stage.
>
> I have another, solid state Fender "Stage 1000" that has digital signal
> processing, etc. Sounds ok, but not like the tube twin.
> There isn't a chip, processor or digital circuit in it.
>
> Eisboch
People are thinking "vintage" even if it's brand new, they want it to
look and sound old.
check out this brand New beat-to-death Strat!
http://stratoblogster.blogspot.com/2007/11/strat-for-friday-59-custom-...p-cruz.
And to think, people pay more for this stuff than a crispy clean on of
the same year.... >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... |
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External
Since: Oct 12, 2007
Posts: 1134
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(Msg. 38) Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 4:57 pm
Post subject: Re: Even the geek who has everything... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Aug 19, 11:29 am, "Eisboch" <noth... RemoveThis @nowhere.com> wrote:
> "Short Wave Sportfishing" <em... RemoveThis @swsportsremove.org> wrote in messagenews:h2ola4to2et2344ul4hfhnnug6cg8h6nqf@4ax.com...
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:45:33 -0400, "Eisboch" <r... RemoveThis @nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> >><sa... RemoveThis @dog.com> wrote in message
> >>news:prhla4pkcrn21tb1pejul1oaoo684hk78n@4ax.com...
> >>> On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 08:48:42 -0400, "Eisboch" <r... RemoveThis @nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald
> >>>>P.
> >>>>Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " <nospample... RemoveThis @here.com> wrote in message
> >>>>news:S72dnXHEG803IDfVnZ2dnUVZ_qXinZ2d@comcast.com...
> >>>>> Eisboch wrote:
> >>>>>> "hk" <payer33... RemoveThis @mypacks.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>>news:-7CdnWKCxfZeKzfVnZ2dnUVZ_gidnZ2d@comcast.com...
> >>>>>>> ...is unlikely to have this toy:
>
> >>>>>>>http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/9836/
>
> >>>>>>> Only $1589.
>
> >>>>>> This geek much prefers this ....
>
> >>>>>> (new release of classic, 1965 twin .... 100% vacuum tube powered)
>
> >>>>>>http://www.eisboch.com/65twin.jpg
>
> >>>>>> Eisboch
>
> >>>>> I wondered why this was not done earlier.
>
> >>>>> Do the "experts" say this sounds the same as the 1965 version?
>
> >>>>I don't know. Sounds the same to me, but I am no expert.
> >>>>It has not been redesigned. Just re-released as a product. Same
> >>>>cabinet
> >>>>design, same Jensen "special" speakers, same tube pre-amps, reverb
> >>>>drivers
> >>>>and 6L6 output stage.
>
> >>>>I have another, solid state Fender "Stage 1000" that has digital signal
> >>>>processing, etc. Sounds ok, but not like the tube twin.
> >>>>There isn't a chip, processor or digital circuit in it.
>
> >>>>Eisboch
>
> >>> Does it have the original tube rectifier, or the later replacement?
>
> >>Hold on .... I'll check ....
>
> >>Must be a solid state (brick) rectifier. It has 10 tubes total .... (4)
> >>6L6's, (2) 12AT7's, (4) 12AX7's.
>
> > Ah - now you ruined it.
>
> > Solid state - bleeeech.... :>)
>
> What does a full wave, solid state bridge recifier have to do with the sound
> of the preamps and power amps?
> All it does is supply clean B+ and bias voltages to the grids? I'll bet
> the solids are cleaner, DC wise, than the tubes.
>
> Eisboch
I would say a more, instant response. Most electronic guitar amps
sound 'sterile" to me.
Here's what i have:
Fender Blues Deville from the 90's Beautiful tone. Only difference
between it and a Hot Rod Deville is the HRDV has overdrive and the BDV
doesn't.
http://www.alpha-music.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=0&idproduct=499 >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... |
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External
Since: Jan 21, 2008
Posts: 760
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(Msg. 39) Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Even the geek who has everything... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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justwaitafrekinminute.RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote:
> On Aug 19, 5:13 pm, hk <payer33....RemoveThis@mypacks.net> wrote:
>> justwaitafrekinmin....RemoveThis@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Libs don't really understand art unless it has a pricetag, and a good
>>> one.. of if one of their friends have it;)
>> Please...stop demonstrating your ignorance and idiocy. You've long ago
>> convinced us.
>>
>> If it weren't for "liberals," there wouldn't be much art, music or
>> literature. Most of the world's great artists in every medium were
>> forward-thinkers, and if they were championed, it was by those with
>> liberal underpinnings.
>
> Ok, let me change that to elite, closed minded, narcissistic, cowardly
> hide under your desk and troll, weren't allowed to listen to radio as
> a kid, attacks in every forum he posts to, liberals... You know, the
> intolerant ignorant kind, like salty...
When you say cowardly, I automatically think of Reggie first. >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... |
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External
Since: Aug 18, 2008
Posts: 75
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(Msg. 40) Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Even the geek who has everything... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 14:16:08 -0700 (PDT), justwaitafrekinminute.TakeThisOut@gmail.com
wrote:
>On Aug 19, 5:13 pm, hk <payer33....TakeThisOut@mypacks.net> wrote:
>> justwaitafrekinmin....TakeThisOut@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > Libs don't really understand art unless it has a pricetag, and a good
>> > one.. of if one of their friends have it;)
>>
>> Please...stop demonstrating your ignorance and idiocy. You've long ago
>> convinced us.
>>
>> If it weren't for "liberals," there wouldn't be much art, music or
>> literature. Most of the world's great artists in every medium were
>> forward-thinkers, and if they were championed, it was by those with
>> liberal underpinnings.
>
>Ok, let me change that to elite, closed minded, narcissistic, cowardly
>hide under your desk and troll, weren't allowed to listen to radio as
>a kid, attacks in every forum he posts to, liberals... You know, the
>intolerant ignorant kind, like salty...
Forward-thinking liberal...now there's an oxymoron.
--
** Good Day! **
John H >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... |
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External
Since: Mar 08, 2008
Posts: 455
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(Msg. 41) Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Even the geek who has everything... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:29:56 -0400, "Eisboch" <nothere.RemoveThis@nowhere.com>
wrote:
>
>"Short Wave Sportfishing" <email.RemoveThis@swsportsremove.org> wrote in message
>news:h2ola4to2et2344ul4hfhnnug6cg8h6nqf@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:45:33 -0400, "Eisboch" <rce.RemoveThis@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><salty.RemoveThis@dog.com> wrote in message
>>>news:prhla4pkcrn21tb1pejul1oaoo684hk78n@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 08:48:42 -0400, "Eisboch" <rce.RemoveThis@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald
>>>>>P.
>>>>>Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " <nospamplease.RemoveThis@here.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:S72dnXHEG803IDfVnZ2dnUVZ_qXinZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>> Eisboch wrote:
>>>>>>> "hk" <payer33859.RemoveThis@mypacks.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:-7CdnWKCxfZeKzfVnZ2dnUVZ_gidnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>> ...is unlikely to have this toy:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/9836/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Only $1589.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This geek much prefers this ....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (new release of classic, 1965 twin .... 100% vacuum tube powered)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.eisboch.com/65twin.jpg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eisboch
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wondered why this was not done earlier.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do the "experts" say this sounds the same as the 1965 version?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't know. Sounds the same to me, but I am no expert.
>>>>>It has not been redesigned. Just re-released as a product. Same
>>>>>cabinet
>>>>>design, same Jensen "special" speakers, same tube pre-amps, reverb
>>>>>drivers
>>>>>and 6L6 output stage.
>>>>>
>>>>>I have another, solid state Fender "Stage 1000" that has digital signal
>>>>>processing, etc. Sounds ok, but not like the tube twin.
>>>>>There isn't a chip, processor or digital circuit in it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Eisboch
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Does it have the original tube rectifier, or the later replacement?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Hold on .... I'll check ....
>>>
>>>Must be a solid state (brick) rectifier. It has 10 tubes total .... (4)
>>>6L6's, (2) 12AT7's, (4) 12AX7's.
>>
>> Ah - now you ruined it.
>>
>> Solid state - bleeeech.... :>)
>
>What does a full wave, solid state bridge recifier have to do with the sound
>of the preamps and power amps?
>All it does is supply clean B+ and bias voltages to the grids? I'll bet
>the solids are cleaner, DC wise, than the tubes.
Never mind - obviously, you wouldn't understand.
Short "Analog Forever" Wave... :>) >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... |
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Since: Jan 21, 2008
Posts: 760
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(Msg. 42) Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Even the geek who has everything... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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justwaitafrekinminute.TakeThisOut@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Libs don't really understand art unless it has a pricetag, and a good
> one.. of if one of their friends have it;)
Please...stop demonstrating your ignorance and idiocy. You've long ago
convinced us.
If it weren't for "liberals," there wouldn't be much art, music or
literature. Most of the world's great artists in every medium were
forward-thinkers, and if they were championed, it was by those with
liberal underpinnings. >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... |
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External
Since: Mar 08, 2008
Posts: 455
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(Msg. 43) Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Even the geek who has everything... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:48:01 -0400, salty.TakeThisOut@dog.com wrote:
>On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:29:56 -0400, "Eisboch" <nothere.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"Short Wave Sportfishing" <email.TakeThisOut@swsportsremove.org> wrote in message
>>news:h2ola4to2et2344ul4hfhnnug6cg8h6nqf@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:45:33 -0400, "Eisboch" <rce.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>><salty.TakeThisOut@dog.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:prhla4pkcrn21tb1pejul1oaoo684hk78n@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 08:48:42 -0400, "Eisboch" <rce.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Earl of Warwich, Duke of Cornwall, Marquies of Anglesea, Sir Reginald
>>>>>>P.
>>>>>>Smithers III Esq. LLC, STP. " <nospamplease.TakeThisOut@here.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:S72dnXHEG803IDfVnZ2dnUVZ_qXinZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>> Eisboch wrote:
>>>>>>>> "hk" <payer33859.TakeThisOut@mypacks.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:-7CdnWKCxfZeKzfVnZ2dnUVZ_gidnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>>>>>> ...is unlikely to have this toy:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/input/9836/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Only $1589.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This geek much prefers this ....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (new release of classic, 1965 twin .... 100% vacuum tube powered)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.eisboch.com/65twin.jpg
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Eisboch
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wondered why this was not done earlier.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do the "experts" say this sounds the same as the 1965 version?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't know. Sounds the same to me, but I am no expert.
>>>>>>It has not been redesigned. Just re-released as a product. Same
>>>>>>cabinet
>>>>>>design, same Jensen "special" speakers, same tube pre-amps, reverb
>>>>>>drivers
>>>>>>and 6L6 output stage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have another, solid state Fender "Stage 1000" that has digital signal
>>>>>>processing, etc. Sounds ok, but not like the tube twin.
>>>>>>There isn't a chip, processor or digital circuit in it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Eisboch
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Does it have the original tube rectifier, or the later replacement?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Hold on .... I'll check ....
>>>>
>>>>Must be a solid state (brick) rectifier. It has 10 tubes total .... (4)
>>>>6L6's, (2) 12AT7's, (4) 12AX7's.
>>>
>>> Ah - now you ruined it.
>>>
>>> Solid state - bleeeech.... :>)
>>
>>What does a full wave, solid state bridge recifier have to do with the sound
>>of the preamps and power amps?
>>All it does is supply clean B+ and bias voltages to the grids? I'll bet
>>the solids are cleaner, DC wise, than the tubes.
>>
>>Eisboch
>>
>
>Yes, and solid state pre amps and power amps are cleaner than tube
>amps, as well. Clean and accurate reproduction is not necessarily the
>objective with tube amplifiers for musical instrument amplification.
>
>How the power is delivered to tubes can measurably affect things such
>as rise time and decay. I'm not promising that you can actually hear
>the difference, but purists will swear they can even if it is a
>physiological impossibility.
Yeah - what he said. :>) >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... |
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External
Since: Mar 08, 2008
Posts: 455
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(Msg. 44) Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Even the geek who has everything... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:42:06 -0400, "Eisboch" <nothere.RemoveThis@nowhere.com>
wrote:
>
><salty.RemoveThis@dog.com> wrote in message
>news:0vula4hktik9a2a34p1r4rj269gpp77efv@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:50:49 -0400, "Eisboch" <nothere.RemoveThis@nowhere.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><salty.RemoveThis@dog.com> wrote in message
>>>news:8vtla4plfhaak7i04po0j6tculgmppjguu@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, and solid state pre amps and power amps are cleaner than tube
>>>> amps, as well. Clean and accurate reproduction is not necessarily the
>>>> objective with tube amplifiers for musical instrument amplification.
>>>>
>>>> How the power is delivered to tubes can measurably affect things such
>>>> as rise time and decay. I'm not promising that you can actually hear
>>>> the difference, but purists will swear they can even if it is a
>>>> physiological impossibility.
>>>>
>>>
>>>If you think about it though, the "power" is really being delivered by one
>>>or more big filter capacitors. I never asked one if it cared how the
>>>power
>>>got there. At that point, DC is DC.
>>>
>>>Eisboch
>>>
>>
>> You would think so, wouldn't you! Bear in mind that a vacuum tube is a
>> mechanical structure and not all of the power is part of the signal
>> path. You have to account for uneven heat, vibration and other
>> anomalies that all go into what come out. The vagaries of a wimpy,
>> tube rectified power supply, with hand rolled paper caps should not be
>> underestimated.
>>
>> Purists will also insist that point to point wiring sounds different
>> than circuit board construction. They may be right about that in some
>> cases. Sounds crazy, though...
>>
>
>I'll buy into the point to point wiring. An important critera used in high
>quality tube amps was to design the chassis so the signal wiring was as far
>away as possible from the power wiring. And, if you noted any funny noises
>or distortion, you could always re-route the wires.
>
>As for the power supply, I am still not convinced a tube rectifier is going
>to sound (or display on an O'scope) any different than solid state, if
>measured at the filter stage or any B+ test point. The audio amplifiers
>certainly are different between solid state and tubes and that is readily
>noticeable, even by people with tin ears.
>But 300 volts DC?
Well, good points every one.
However, I can tell the difference between, say, my Mac 50s and a
similar power level solid state monoblock.
And I know others who can.
So there must be something to it.
Maybe it's all in our heads.
Mine's certainly empty enough. :>) >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... |
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External
Since: Feb 02, 2005
Posts: 1066
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(Msg. 45) Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Even the geek who has everything... [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 18:21:40 GMT, Short Wave Sportfishing
<email.TakeThisOut@swsportsremove.org> wrote:
>However, I can tell the difference between, say, my Mac 50s and a
>similar power level solid state monoblock.
I think it's safe to say that the old tube amps had more "warmth",
just the thing for a cold winter's night in New England.  >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... |
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