Even the geek who has everything...

"Eisboch" <nothere RemoveThis @nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:m_6dndkIQNJrXzbVnZ2dnUVZ_sTinZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> "Calif Bill" <bmckeespam RemoveThis @ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:HJCdneyjPr2UPTbVnZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@earthlink.com...
>>
>
>>
>> And you forgot about the old Silicon Rectifiers.
>>
>
> You probably mean the old Selenium Rectifiers. The ones that stunk like
> rotten eggs when they went bad.
>
> Eisboch
>

Damn senior moments. Should not forget Selenium as it is a major toxin in
the Central Valley of Calif.
 >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... 

<salty DeleteThis @dog.com> wrote in message
news:hesna45sfalm9rf8llcqunjguo5jh2uae5@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:31:08 -0700, "Calif Bill"
> <bmckeespam DeleteThis @ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Short Wave Sportfishing" <email DeleteThis @swsportsremove.org> wrote in message
>>news:j13ma45qn3utjrj1jt0853t6kg7c8af326@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:42:06 -0400, "Eisboch" <nothere DeleteThis @nowhere.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>><salty DeleteThis @dog.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:0vula4hktik9a2a34p1r4rj269gpp77efv@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:50:49 -0400, "Eisboch" <nothere DeleteThis @nowhere.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>><salty DeleteThis @dog.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:8vtla4plfhaak7i04po0j6tculgmppjguu@4ax.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, and solid state pre amps and power amps are cleaner than tube
>>>>>>> amps, as well. Clean and accurate reproduction is not necessarily
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> objective with tube amplifiers for musical instrument amplification.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How the power is delivered to tubes can measurably affect things
>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>> as rise time and decay. I'm not promising that you can actually hear
>>>>>>> the difference, but purists will swear they can even if it is a
>>>>>>> physiological impossibility.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If you think about it though, the "power" is really being delivered by
>>>>>>one
>>>>>>or more big filter capacitors. I never asked one if it cared how the
>>>>>>power
>>>>>>got there. At that point, DC is DC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Eisboch
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You would think so, wouldn't you! Bear in mind that a vacuum tube is a
>>>>> mechanical structure and not all of the power is part of the signal
>>>>> path. You have to account for uneven heat, vibration and other
>>>>> anomalies that all go into what come out. The vagaries of a wimpy,
>>>>> tube rectified power supply, with hand rolled paper caps should not be
>>>>> underestimated.
>>>>>
>>>>> Purists will also insist that point to point wiring sounds different
>>>>> than circuit board construction. They may be right about that in some
>>>>> cases. Sounds crazy, though...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I'll buy into the point to point wiring. An important critera used in
>>>>high
>>>>quality tube amps was to design the chassis so the signal wiring was as
>>>>far
>>>>away as possible from the power wiring. And, if you noted any funny
>>>>noises
>>>>or distortion, you could always re-route the wires.
>>>>
>>>>As for the power supply, I am still not convinced a tube rectifier is
>>>>going
>>>>to sound (or display on an O'scope) any different than solid state, if
>>>>measured at the filter stage or any B+ test point. The audio
>>>>amplifiers
>>>>certainly are different between solid state and tubes and that is
>>>>readily
>>>>noticeable, even by people with tin ears.
>>>>But 300 volts DC?
>>>
>>> Well, good points every one.
>>>
>>> However, I can tell the difference between, say, my Mac 50s and a
>>> similar power level solid state monoblock.
>>>
>>> And I know others who can.
>>>
>>> So there must be something to it.
>>>
>>> Maybe it's all in our heads.
>>>
>>> Mine's certainly empty enough. :>)
>>
>>
>>Solid state did great things in the 1940's. Magnetic Amps controlled the
>>16" guns on the battleships. But Russia used microtubes / micro-valves
>>for
>>the English, in their ICBMs and other rockets.
>>
>
> In a nuclear attack, the Russian vacuum tube guidance systems have a
> clear advantage, as they would still work.
>

Yes they would survive the EMP. But they also did not have the capability
at the time to produce chips. When they went to an I think 8080 chip in one
of their missiles was a direct copy of a US one. They probably got stolen
masks as there was bad circuit in the design and was just wired around. The
bad circuit with wire around was in the Russian built chip.
 >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... 

On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 23:10:40 -0700, "Calif Bill"
<bmckeespam RemoveThis @ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>
><salty RemoveThis @dog.com> wrote in message
>news:hesna45sfalm9rf8llcqunjguo5jh2uae5@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:31:08 -0700, "Calif Bill"
>> <bmckeespam RemoveThis @ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Short Wave Sportfishing" <email RemoveThis @swsportsremove.org> wrote in message
>>>news:j13ma45qn3utjrj1jt0853t6kg7c8af326@4ax.com...
>>>> On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 13:42:06 -0400, "Eisboch" <nothere RemoveThis @nowhere.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>><salty RemoveThis @dog.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:0vula4hktik9a2a34p1r4rj269gpp77efv@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 12:50:49 -0400, "Eisboch" <nothere RemoveThis @nowhere.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>><salty RemoveThis @dog.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:8vtla4plfhaak7i04po0j6tculgmppjguu@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, and solid state pre amps and power amps are cleaner than tube
>>>>>>>> amps, as well. Clean and accurate reproduction is not necessarily
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> objective with tube amplifiers for musical instrument amplification.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How the power is delivered to tubes can measurably affect things
>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>> as rise time and decay. I'm not promising that you can actually hear
>>>>>>>> the difference, but purists will swear they can even if it is a
>>>>>>>> physiological impossibility.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If you think about it though, the "power" is really being delivered by
>>>>>>>one
>>>>>>>or more big filter capacitors. I never asked one if it cared how the
>>>>>>>power
>>>>>>>got there. At that point, DC is DC.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Eisboch
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You would think so, wouldn't you! Bear in mind that a vacuum tube is a
>>>>>> mechanical structure and not all of the power is part of the signal
>>>>>> path. You have to account for uneven heat, vibration and other
>>>>>> anomalies that all go into what come out. The vagaries of a wimpy,
>>>>>> tube rectified power supply, with hand rolled paper caps should not be
>>>>>> underestimated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Purists will also insist that point to point wiring sounds different
>>>>>> than circuit board construction. They may be right about that in some
>>>>>> cases. Sounds crazy, though...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I'll buy into the point to point wiring. An important critera used in
>>>>>high
>>>>>quality tube amps was to design the chassis so the signal wiring was as
>>>>>far
>>>>>away as possible from the power wiring. And, if you noted any funny
>>>>>noises
>>>>>or distortion, you could always re-route the wires.
>>>>>
>>>>>As for the power supply, I am still not convinced a tube rectifier is
>>>>>going
>>>>>to sound (or display on an O'scope) any different than solid state, if
>>>>>measured at the filter stage or any B+ test point. The audio
>>>>>amplifiers
>>>>>certainly are different between solid state and tubes and that is
>>>>>readily
>>>>>noticeable, even by people with tin ears.
>>>>>But 300 volts DC?
>>>>
>>>> Well, good points every one.
>>>>
>>>> However, I can tell the difference between, say, my Mac 50s and a
>>>> similar power level solid state monoblock.
>>>>
>>>> And I know others who can.
>>>>
>>>> So there must be something to it.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe it's all in our heads.
>>>>
>>>> Mine's certainly empty enough. :>)
>>>
>>>
>>>Solid state did great things in the 1940's. Magnetic Amps controlled the
>>>16" guns on the battleships. But Russia used microtubes / micro-valves
>>>for
>>>the English, in their ICBMs and other rockets.
>>>
>>
>> In a nuclear attack, the Russian vacuum tube guidance systems have a
>> clear advantage, as they would still work.
>>
>
>Yes they would survive the EMP. But they also did not have the capability
>at the time to produce chips. When they went to an I think 8080 chip in one
>of their missiles was a direct copy of a US one. They probably got stolen
>masks as there was bad circuit in the design and was just wired around. The
>bad circuit with wire around was in the Russian built chip.
>
 >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... 

On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 23:07:51 -0700, "Calif Bill"
<bmckeespam.RemoveThis@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>
>"Eisboch" <nothere.RemoveThis@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>news:m_6dndkIQNJrXzbVnZ2dnUVZ_sTinZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "Calif Bill" <bmckeespam.RemoveThis@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:HJCdneyjPr2UPTbVnZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@earthlink.com...
>>>
>>
>>>
>>> And you forgot about the old Silicon Rectifiers.
>>>
>>
>> You probably mean the old Selenium Rectifiers. The ones that stunk like
>> rotten eggs when they went bad.
>>
>> Eisboch
>>
>
>Damn senior moments. Should not forget Selenium as it is a major toxin in
>the Central Valley of Calif.

Plants pick it up and concentrate it. Problem is, livestock eat the
plants. At least half the elements are toxic, nearly everything
heavier than iron. Silver is toxic. They can only use it for skull
plates, pins in bones etc, because it is insoluble. You are not
allowed to dump spent photo fixer in commercial quantities into the
sewers, because of the silver.

Casady
 >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... 

On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 23:10:40 -0700, "Calif Bill"
<bmckeespam.TakeThisOut@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>They probably got stolen
>masks as there was bad circuit in the design and was just wired around. The
>bad circuit with wire around was in the Russian built chip.

The must have got the masks, since reverse engineering a chip is
impossible. I understand eight or more layers are common. To digress,I
wouldn't mind having a five by five foot high resolution photo of one
to hang on the wall.

Casady
 >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... 

"Richard Casady" <richardcasady.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:48c16d77.415298406@news.east.earthlink.net...
> On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 23:07:51 -0700, "Calif Bill"
> <bmckeespam.DeleteThis@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Eisboch" <nothere.DeleteThis@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>>news:m_6dndkIQNJrXzbVnZ2dnUVZ_sTinZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>
>>> "Calif Bill" <bmckeespam.DeleteThis@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>>> news:HJCdneyjPr2UPTbVnZ2dnUVZ_obinZ2d@earthlink.com...
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> And you forgot about the old Silicon Rectifiers.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You probably mean the old Selenium Rectifiers. The ones that stunk like
>>> rotten eggs when they went bad.
>>>
>>> Eisboch
>>>
>>
>>Damn senior moments. Should not forget Selenium as it is a major toxin in
>>the Central Valley of Calif.
>
> Plants pick it up and concentrate it. Problem is, livestock eat the
> plants. At least half the elements are toxic, nearly everything
> heavier than iron. Silver is toxic. They can only use it for skull
> plates, pins in bones etc, because it is insoluble. You are not
> allowed to dump spent photo fixer in commercial quantities into the
> sewers, because of the silver.
>
> Casady

The coastal hills in Calif have lots of selenium and the irrigation
practices tend to bring lots of salts and the included selenium to the
farms. The use drains in the fields to remove the salts and the
concentration ponds are extremely toxic. They now do not allow anything to
grow around the pond, to keep the birds from nesting there.
 >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... 

"Richard Casady" <richardcasady.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:48c26d7d.415303734@news.east.earthlink.net...
> On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 23:10:40 -0700, "Calif Bill"
> <bmckeespam.RemoveThis@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>>They probably got stolen
>>masks as there was bad circuit in the design and was just wired around.
>>The
>>bad circuit with wire around was in the Russian built chip.
>
> The must have got the masks, since reverse engineering a chip is
> impossible. I understand eight or more layers are common. To digress,I
> wouldn't mind having a five by five foot high resolution photo of one
> to hang on the wall.
>
> Casady

I have 8x11 shots of DSP's. Even a few DSP's from a wafer. The wafer over
the years has gotten more and more broken. Was an Apps engineer for TI in
one of my careers. 8080 probably only had 4-6 layers. Reverse engineering
is not impossible, just not financially practical. We actually opened up
chips and changed connections on prototype custom chips. Mostly when the
customer screwed up. They design the chip and run simulations. And they
forget to connect a section to another output stage.
 >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... 

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:26:42 -0400, "Eisboch" <rerik.RemoveThis@comcast.net>
wrote:

>The above post by you just showed up on Gene's server, along with some of
>the thread started by Harry, although his original post isn't here ... yet

What news reader are you using?

Everything coming from Gene's server (I assume it's Gene's server)
doesn't thread properly in Agent.
 >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... 

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 01:41:22 +0000, Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:


> Everything coming from Gene's server (I assume it's Gene's server)
> doesn't thread properly in Agent.

Threading is done on the References Header. Anything looking funky there?
 >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... 

"Short Wave Sportfishing" <email.DeleteThis@swsportsremove.org> wrote in message
news:196sa4p96leg6p02bbnv6op30qnq4kdplv@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:26:42 -0400, "Eisboch" <rerik.DeleteThis@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>The above post by you just showed up on Gene's server, along with some of
>>the thread started by Harry, although his original post isn't here ... yet
>
> What news reader are you using?
>
> Everything coming from Gene's server (I assume it's Gene's server)
> doesn't thread properly in Agent.

Many don't thread correctly in OE either. That applies to msgs posted thru
the greatnowhere.com server and retrieved from giganews in my case.
 >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... 

On Aug 22, 10:26 am, BAR <sc... RemoveThis @you.com> wrote:
> hk wrote:
> > thun... RemoveThis @TAKEOUTgti.net wrote:
> >> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:25:09 -0400, BAR wrote:
>
> >>> Harry is posting via two servers, Gene's and another one. A quick look
> >>> at the heads will tell you which server the posts are coming from. Harry
> >>> has the best of both worlds now. He can post in a well behaved manner
> >>> via Gene's server and at the same time post snarky replies via his other
> >>> server. Since the snarky posts are being originated from Gene's server
> >>> Gene won't terminate his access.
>
> >> I think the point of Gene's server is, that if you were using it, you
> >> wouldn't see the snarky posts.
>
> > Actually, I post via *three* servers, and it has nothing to do with
> > simple-minded BAR's claim. Gawd, it must be awful, going through life as
> > he does, terminally stupid.
>
> I rest my case.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hey, all you have to do is be nice to him and play by his rules and he
will stop calling you names.. Oh, and you need to have something he
wishes he had...
 >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... 

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:25:09 -0400, BAR wrote:

> Harry is posting via two servers, Gene's and another one. A quick look
> at the heads will tell you which server the posts are coming from. Harry
> has the best of both worlds now. He can post in a well behaved manner
> via Gene's server and at the same time post snarky replies via his other
> server. Since the snarky posts are being originated from Gene's server
> Gene won't terminate his access.

I think the point of Gene's server is, that if you were using it, you
wouldn't see the snarky posts.
 >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything... 

Harry is posting via two servers, Gene's and another one. A quick look
at the heads will tell you which server the posts are coming from. Harry
has the best of both worlds now. He can post in a well behaved manner
via Gene's server and at the same time post snarky replies via his other
server. Since the snarky posts are being originated from Gene's server
Gene won't terminate his access.

Eisboch wrote:
> This just showed up on Gene's server, along with some of the thread started
> by Harry, although his original post isn't here ... yet.
>
>
> "RMR" <justwaitafrekinminute RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:j2lla4trvir2t9e8sv4q3o2du6gj02l436@4ax.com...
>> Well, things should get better. I just plonked salty and harry, as
>> soon as my other bud posts again, he will get the same. Last time i
>> did it wrong and killed entire threads.. Think I got it right this
>> time. Agent is quite extensive, a lot to go though, I guess I'll
>> need to be a little more patient..
>>
>> On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:38:56 -0400, "Eisboch" <rce RemoveThis @nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>> <justwaitafrekinminute RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1ec09733-d60c-489e-8687-0b7d04b0f114@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>
>>> Hey Dick, let me know if you are getting my posts, if you are using
>>> Genes server to read and post you won't...
>>>
>>> --------------------------
>>>
>>> I alternate back and forth between Gene's server and my Giganews server,
>>> mainly because it's interesting to see how his filter algorithms work.
>>>
>>> For example .... this whole thread .... originally started by Harry ....
>>> does not show up on Gene's at all, at least not so far.
>>> So you aren't there, but none of the respondents, including Harry's
>>> original
>>> post "Even the geek who has everything" is not there at the time of this
>>> post.
>>>
>>> Yet, all of our OT discussion about the Norwegian Utopia is there.
>>>
>>> I've noticed that most of the time posts on Gene's server show up much
>>> later
>>> after they appear on Giganews, although occasionally they show up on
>>> Gene's
>>> faster.
>>>
>>> Eisboch
>>>
>
>
> The above post by you just showed up on Gene's server, along with some of
> the thread started by Harry, although his original post isn't here ... yet
>
> Eisboch
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Even the geek who has everything...