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over loading - tell me you you have experienced and help me

  
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Gregory McGuire

External


Since: Jun 06, 2004
Posts: 23



(Msg. 1) Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:59 am
Post subject: over loading - tell me you you have experienced and help me
Archived from groups: rec>boats (more info?)
Today I went to lake camanche (in California), and I think I overloaded my
boat and it handled like it was listing to one side and then the other. I
was afraid that if I went too fast that I could loose control. Steering was
very heavy and unresponsive. I wanted to make two trips but my younger
brother said we were going to be all right.
The boat is a 1975 bayliner mutiny 1700. Registration says 16'2''
NADA guides gives me this information:
Length: 16'
Model Name/Description: 1700 MUTINY
Boat Type: Outboard Boats
Hull Material: Fiberglass
Beam: 6' 10"
Engine:
Net Weight: 900

Boat has a '85 mercury 900/90 horse inline 6
NADA guides gives me this information
Model: 90EL
Motor Type: Gasoline
Volts (Electric Motors):
Thrust (Electric Motors):
Horsepower: 90
Cylinders: 6
Start Type: Electric
Dry Weight: 300
Power Tilt and Trim: No

=========================
pic of boat:
http://users.rcn.com/neptunium/boat/mutiny
Boat has seats for 4, Boat was loaded this way:
4 adults
me - 175/lbs.
Pete-170/lbs.
Maria-185/lbs.
don-160/lbs.
1 child - Brandon 65/lbs. (sat on lap left front with maria)
2 - gas cans with 5 gal of fuel
1 battery
2 ice chests
3 skies
5 life vests
1 knee board
one of those tubes
1 seedless watermelon
4 beach chairs
4 beach towels
1 paddle
other small stuff
=======================
The outboard has a trim fin looks similar to this
http://users.rcn.com/neptunium/boat/trim
how does this affect the boat in turns, my boat seems to want to roll on a
hard turn like it would
roll over so I just turn wheel other direction and it seems to come back up.
(two people in boat pulling kneeboard)
Boat was trimmed 2nd hole from transom. Is this a good place to trim the
motor?
========================
This is my first boat. I need advise. Tell me what you have experienced,
tell me what you know about handling a boat
and the feel of driving a boat over loaded/ loaded correctly.
How are you trimming your motor?
My motor has manual trim.
I know this is a hard question to figure, but I know that there is someone
in this forum
with the knowledge and experience to help me out.

GREGORY

 >> Stay informed about: over loading - tell me you you have experienced and help me 
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Calif Bill

External


Since: Jul 23, 2003
Posts: 937



(Msg. 2) Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 9:49 am
Post subject: Re: over loading - tell me you you have experienced and help [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
Try running the boat with just a couple of people in the boat and see how it
handles. How fast were you going when you had this feeling.
Bill

"Gregory McGuire" <gregory_747 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40d13338$1$3002$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
 > Today I went to lake camanche (in California), and I think I overloaded my
 > boat and it handled like it was listing to one side and then the other. I
 > was afraid that if I went too fast that I could loose control. Steering
was
 > very heavy and unresponsive. I wanted to make two trips but my younger
 > brother said we were going to be all right.
 > The boat is a 1975 bayliner mutiny 1700. Registration says 16'2''
 > NADA guides gives me this information:
 > Length: 16'
 > Model Name/Description: 1700 MUTINY
 > Boat Type: Outboard Boats
 > Hull Material: Fiberglass
 > Beam: 6' 10"
 > Engine:
 > Net Weight: 900
 >
 > Boat has a '85 mercury 900/90 horse inline 6
 > NADA guides gives me this information
 > Model: 90EL
 > Motor Type: Gasoline
 > Volts (Electric Motors):
 > Thrust (Electric Motors):
 > Horsepower: 90
 > Cylinders: 6
 > Start Type: Electric
 > Dry Weight: 300
 > Power Tilt and Trim: No
 >
 > =========================
 > pic of boat:
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://users.rcn.com/neptunium/boat/mutiny</font" target="_blank">http://users.rcn.com/neptunium/boat/mutiny</font</a>>
 > Boat has seats for 4, Boat was loaded this way:
 > 4 adults
 > me - 175/lbs.
 > Pete-170/lbs.
 > Maria-185/lbs.
 > don-160/lbs.
 > 1 child - Brandon 65/lbs. (sat on lap left front with maria)
 > 2 - gas cans with 5 gal of fuel
 > 1 battery
 > 2 ice chests
 > 3 skies
 > 5 life vests
 > 1 knee board
 > one of those tubes
 > 1 seedless watermelon
 > 4 beach chairs
 > 4 beach towels
 > 1 paddle
 > other small stuff
 > =======================
 > The outboard has a trim fin looks similar to this
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://users.rcn.com/neptunium/boat/trim</font" target="_blank">http://users.rcn.com/neptunium/boat/trim</font</a>>
 > how does this affect the boat in turns, my boat seems to want to roll on a
 > hard turn like it would
 > roll over so I just turn wheel other direction and it seems to come back
up.
 > (two people in boat pulling kneeboard)
 > Boat was trimmed 2nd hole from transom. Is this a good place to trim the
 > motor?
 > ========================
 > This is my first boat. I need advise. Tell me what you have experienced,
 > tell me what you know about handling a boat
 > and the feel of driving a boat over loaded/ loaded correctly.
 > How are you trimming your motor?
 > My motor has manual trim.
 > I know this is a hard question to figure, but I know that there is someone
 > in this forum
 > with the knowledge and experience to help me out.
 >
 > GREGORY
 >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

 >> Stay informed about: over loading - tell me you you have experienced and help me 
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William G. Anderse

External


Since: Feb 10, 2004
Posts: 79



(Msg. 3) Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:22 pm
Post subject: Re: over loading - tell me you you have experienced and help [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
I have a stern drive, so I don't know how to trim an outboard.
But, I often have my 19' bowrider fully loaded with children, grandchildren,
cooler and toys. The boat seems to handle the same, regardless of load, and
only acceleration is affected.
I also have a hydrofoil: the fin gets me on plane at lower speed and lets me
stay there, too - great for beginning wakeboarding, which is done right
about the speed I get on plane.

"Gregory McGuire" <gregory_747 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40d13338$1$3002$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
 > Today I went to lake camanche (in California), and I think I overloaded my
 > boat and it handled like it was listing to one side and then the other. I
 > was afraid that if I went too fast that I could loose control. Steering
was
 > very heavy and unresponsive. I wanted to make two trips but my younger
 > brother said we were going to be all right.
 > The boat is a 1975 bayliner mutiny 1700. Registration says 16'2''
 > NADA guides gives me this information:
 > Length: 16'
 > Model Name/Description: 1700 MUTINY
 > Boat Type: Outboard Boats
 > Hull Material: Fiberglass
 > Beam: 6' 10"
 > Engine:
 > Net Weight: 900
 >
 > Boat has a '85 mercury 900/90 horse inline 6
 > NADA guides gives me this information
 > Model: 90EL
 > Motor Type: Gasoline
 > Volts (Electric Motors):
 > Thrust (Electric Motors):
 > Horsepower: 90
 > Cylinders: 6
 > Start Type: Electric
 > Dry Weight: 300
 > Power Tilt and Trim: No
 >
 > =========================
 > pic of boat:
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://users.rcn.com/neptunium/boat/mutiny</font" target="_blank">http://users.rcn.com/neptunium/boat/mutiny</font</a>>
 > Boat has seats for 4, Boat was loaded this way:
 > 4 adults
 > me - 175/lbs.
 > Pete-170/lbs.
 > Maria-185/lbs.
 > don-160/lbs.
 > 1 child - Brandon 65/lbs. (sat on lap left front with maria)
 > 2 - gas cans with 5 gal of fuel
 > 1 battery
 > 2 ice chests
 > 3 skies
 > 5 life vests
 > 1 knee board
 > one of those tubes
 > 1 seedless watermelon
 > 4 beach chairs
 > 4 beach towels
 > 1 paddle
 > other small stuff
 > =======================
 > The outboard has a trim fin looks similar to this
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://users.rcn.com/neptunium/boat/trim</font" target="_blank">http://users.rcn.com/neptunium/boat/trim</font</a>>
 > how does this affect the boat in turns, my boat seems to want to roll on a
 > hard turn like it would
 > roll over so I just turn wheel other direction and it seems to come back
up.
 > (two people in boat pulling kneeboard)
 > Boat was trimmed 2nd hole from transom. Is this a good place to trim the
 > motor?
 > ========================
 > This is my first boat. I need advise. Tell me what you have experienced,
 > tell me what you know about handling a boat
 > and the feel of driving a boat over loaded/ loaded correctly.
 > How are you trimming your motor?
 > My motor has manual trim.
 > I know this is a hard question to figure, but I know that there is someone
 > in this forum
 > with the knowledge and experience to help me out.
 >
 > GREGORY
 >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: over loading - tell me you you have experienced and help me 
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Gary Warner

External


Since: Jul 07, 2003
Posts: 378



(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:53 pm
Post subject: Re: over loading - tell me you you have experienced and help [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
Posting Maria's weight is probably a good way to
get youself listing to one side. Actually I think it
was probably the seedless watermelon that put
you over the limit.

Um...not that it equates to much but on my 16/17 footer
I've had that many people, 20 gals of gas, and other
stuff that probably roughly added up to your weights.
It's certainly not as safe as with less people..but handled
OK in a choppy harbor.

Maybe it was just the distribuiton of the weights?
 >> Stay informed about: over loading - tell me you you have experienced and help me 
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Warren Reichert

External


Since: Jun 17, 2004
Posts: 1



(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:48 pm
Post subject: Re: over loading - tell me you you have experienced and help [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
Hello Gregory: Couple of things for starters. Your Bayliner has a
capacity plate somewhere in the cockpit, probably around the instrument
[anel or to the right of it. That will give you the recommended safe
load. Overloading can cause sluggish performance So can improper
loading, usually having too much weight in the stern so the hull does
not plane and becomes hard to handle.

Another cause of poor performance can be the wrong prop. Props
identified by pitch and diameter. One size does not fit all. A smaller
diameter is appropriate for a heavier load and vice versa. It is like a
car goiing uphill -- if it is in the wrong gear it will lug and be
unresponsive.

You didn; say whether you bought your boat from a dealer or private
party. If it was a dealer it is perfectlyacceptable to consult with him.
In fact, he should be happy to do so. If you bought it privately, the
previous owner may be happy to share his knowledge of that hull and
motor. Also, most dealers are willing to share with new boaters even if
the boat was purchased elsewhere. Many dealers also have free literature
on boat safety and handling put out by the Coast Guard and Cal Boating.

Were I you, I also would seek out a neighbor or fellow employee who is
an experienced boater and try to get some hands-on information. I
notice that you boat at Lake Camanche. I'm fro Stockton. Where do you
live?
 >> Stay informed about: over loading - tell me you you have experienced and help me 
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Tony Thomas

External


Since: Sep 06, 2003
Posts: 290



(Msg. 6) Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 1:49 am
Post subject: Re: over loading - tell me you you have experienced and help [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
You were probably right at the limit but not over to the point that it would
effect drivability. Either the trim was not set right or you were trying to
run too fast or too slow or you just had too much weight in the bow. At
3500 rpms it should have felt a little slugish but nothing to be concerned
with.


--
Tony
my boats at <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com" target="_blank">http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com</a>

"Gregory McGuire" <gregory_747.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40d13338$1$3002$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
 > Today I went to lake camanche (in California), and I think I overloaded my
 > boat and it handled like it was listing to one side and then the other. I
 > was afraid that if I went too fast that I could loose control. Steering
was
 > very heavy and unresponsive. I wanted to make two trips but my younger
 > brother said we were going to be all right.
 > The boat is a 1975 bayliner mutiny 1700. Registration says 16'2''
 > NADA guides gives me this information:
 > Length: 16'
 > Model Name/Description: 1700 MUTINY
 > Boat Type: Outboard Boats
 > Hull Material: Fiberglass
 > Beam: 6' 10"
 > Engine:
 > Net Weight: 900
 >
 > Boat has a '85 mercury 900/90 horse inline 6
 > NADA guides gives me this information
 > Model: 90EL
 > Motor Type: Gasoline
 > Volts (Electric Motors):
 > Thrust (Electric Motors):
 > Horsepower: 90
 > Cylinders: 6
 > Start Type: Electric
 > Dry Weight: 300
 > Power Tilt and Trim: No
 >
 > =========================
 > pic of boat:
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://users.rcn.com/neptunium/boat/mutiny</font" target="_blank">http://users.rcn.com/neptunium/boat/mutiny</font</a>>
 > Boat has seats for 4, Boat was loaded this way:
 > 4 adults
 > me - 175/lbs.
 > Pete-170/lbs.
 > Maria-185/lbs.
 > don-160/lbs.
 > 1 child - Brandon 65/lbs. (sat on lap left front with maria)
 > 2 - gas cans with 5 gal of fuel
 > 1 battery
 > 2 ice chests
 > 3 skies
 > 5 life vests
 > 1 knee board
 > one of those tubes
 > 1 seedless watermelon
 > 4 beach chairs
 > 4 beach towels
 > 1 paddle
 > other small stuff
 > =======================
 > The outboard has a trim fin looks similar to this
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://users.rcn.com/neptunium/boat/trim</font" target="_blank">http://users.rcn.com/neptunium/boat/trim</font</a>>
 > how does this affect the boat in turns, my boat seems to want to roll on a
 > hard turn like it would
 > roll over so I just turn wheel other direction and it seems to come back
up.
 > (two people in boat pulling kneeboard)
 > Boat was trimmed 2nd hole from transom. Is this a good place to trim the
 > motor?
 > ========================
 > This is my first boat. I need advise. Tell me what you have experienced,
 > tell me what you know about handling a boat
 > and the feel of driving a boat over loaded/ loaded correctly.
 > How are you trimming your motor?
 > My motor has manual trim.
 > I know this is a hard question to figure, but I know that there is someone
 > in this forum
 > with the knowledge and experience to help me out.
 >
 > GREGORY
 >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: over loading - tell me you you have experienced and help me 
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Camilo

External


Since: May 13, 2004
Posts: 85



(Msg. 7) Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 5:14 pm
Post subject: Re: over loading - tell me you you have experienced and help [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
"Gregory McGuire" <gregory_747 DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:40d13338$1$3002$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
 > Today I went to lake camanche (in California), and I think I overloaded my
 > boat and it handled like it was listing to one side and then the other. I
 > was afraid that if I went too fast that I could loose control. Steering
was
 > very heavy and unresponsive. I wanted to make two trips but my younger
 > brother said we were going to be all right.

It could be that this is a function of several factors - overloading, too
much weight forward, motor trimmed in too much and the hydrofoil on your
lower unit. There has been quite a few discussions on iboats.com forums on
this sort of phenomenon. for example, check out this link for a similar
(not identical) problem:

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009102" target="_blank">http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009102</a>

The bottom line is that the hydrofoil can exacerbate hull steering in some
situations, especially if the motor is trimmed too far in and the bow is
plowing a little.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: over loading - tell me you you have experienced and help me 
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Gregory McGuire

External


Since: Jun 06, 2004
Posts: 23



(Msg. 8) Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 1:05 am
Post subject: Re: over loading - tell me you you have experienced and help [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
Great information Camilo,
I had read something like this even before I had bought the boat. Seems to
me that prop torque could be trying to turn the boat. Thing was that with
all the weight in the boat it happened. And when pulling a skier then on a
sharp turn it wants to turn harder than I am steering - seems that the boat
wants to turn more than the amount of steering I'm giving it. Now it didn't
want to "list" right/left with only 2 people pulling a skier - straight, and
on light turns.
I'm not sure where I read about this but it could have been on mercury
marine's website about modifying their outboards with a trim fin.
I had read somewhere that when a trim fin was installed on a boat with a
V-Bottom that this could cause passengers to be thrown overboard.
I'm gona get a picture of the back of my boat and the trim fin on there and
then you can tell me if everything is ok...
Greg
"Camilo" <campascual.RemoveThis@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2jjru7F11nf34U1@uni-berlin.de...
 > "Gregory McGuire" <gregory_747.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
 > news:40d13338$1$3002$61fed72c@news.rcn.com...
  > > Today I went to lake camanche (in California), and I think I overloaded
my
  > > boat and it handled like it was listing to one side and then the other.
I
  > > was afraid that if I went too fast that I could loose control. Steering
 > was
  > > very heavy and unresponsive. I wanted to make two trips but my younger
  > > brother said we were going to be all right.
 >
 > It could be that this is a function of several factors - overloading, too
 > much weight forward, motor trimmed in too much and the hydrofoil on your
 > lower unit. There has been quite a few discussions on iboats.com forums
on
 > this sort of phenomenon. for example, check out this link for a similar
 > (not identical) problem:
 >
 >
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009102" target="_blank">http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=009102</a>
 >
 > The bottom line is that the hydrofoil can exacerbate hull steering in some
 > situations, especially if the motor is trimmed too far in and the bow is
 > plowing a little.
 >
 >
 >
 ><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: over loading - tell me you you have experienced and help me 
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