Send a message to the big predators: the little fish have ..

donquijote1954 wrote:

> T-SHIRTS TO CHANGE THE WORLD...
>
> Hey, if you paddle a canoe/kayak to save the environment, it's time to
> be proud of it. Show the selfish owners of big motorboats that you are
> bigger than them.

What if you drive to the water in a gas-guzzling SUV with the canoe on top?
Is there a T-shirt for that?

--
Eiron.
 >> Stay informed about: Send a message to the big predators: the little fish have .. 

On Feb 18, 4:03 pm, "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob... RemoveThis @hotmail.com>
wrote:
> T-SHIRTS TO CHANGE THE WORLD...
>
> In any case, you may have decided you had it with the stupid beast,
> and you've decided to give a chance to the smart and small, just like
> a bike or canoe. "Do not feed the dinosaur" seems like a good start.

I'm OK with the sentiment, but I'm having trouble with the metaphor.
SUVs and motorboats run on dead dinosaurs. They don't feed them. Good
luck with your campaign.

Steve
 >> Stay informed about: Send a message to the big predators: the little fish have .. 

On Feb 21, 12:24 pm, "cramer...@gmail.com" <cramer....RemoveThis@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Feb 18, 4:03 pm, "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob....RemoveThis@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > T-SHIRTS TO CHANGE THE WORLD...
>
> > In any case, you may have decided you had it with the stupid beast,
> > and you've decided to give a chance to the smart and small, just like
> > a bike or canoe. "Do not feed the dinosaur" seems like a good start.
>
> I'm OK with the sentiment, but I'm having trouble with the metaphor.
> SUVs and motorboats run on dead dinosaurs. They don't feed them. Good
> luck with your campaign.
>
> Steve

Oh, that's ANOTHER metaphor. Why would God wipe out the dinosaurs, to
provide oil for his worshippers in SUVs and motorboats? Oh sure, they
are fulfilling the prophecies that big is good, if you ever find one.
They no doubt would have sided with Rome at its prime (not the Vatican
but the Roman Empire).

But what if God decides to wipe out the new dinosaurs and make room
for the furry little mammals? Perhaps that would be the Second Coming
of Jesus on a donkey --or bicycle or canoe. Then the cyclists and
canoeists will lead the next revolution...

For those who only listen to the preacherman, here's what the Bible
says...

John's gospel records that Jesus rejected the call to be their warrior
king. Mounting a young donkey, he rode into Jerusalem, fulfilling the
prophecy of Zephaniah: "Fear not, Daughter of Sion, your king is
coming, mounted on a donkey's colt."

Not a fearsome warrior, he was the humble king the prophet described.
In Jerusalem he would open his arms to the poor outcasts of the
world..

"At the time his disciples did not understand this..." John
concludes.

http://www.cptryon.org/prayer/season/palm.html
 >> Stay informed about: Send a message to the big predators: the little fish have .. 

On Feb 21, 12:11 pm, "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob... DeleteThis @hotmail.com>
wrote:
> On Feb 21, 12:24 pm, "cramer...@gmail.com" <cramer... DeleteThis @gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 18, 4:03 pm, "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob... DeleteThis @hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > T-SHIRTS TO CHANGE THE WORLD...
>
> > > In any case, you may have decided you had it with the stupid beast,
> > > and you've decided to give a chance to the smart and small, just like
> > > a bike or canoe. "Do not feed the dinosaur" seems like a good start.
>
> > I'm OK with the sentiment, but I'm having trouble with the metaphor.
> > SUVs and motorboats run on dead dinosaurs. They don't feed them. Good
> > luck with your campaign.
>
> > Steve
>
> Oh, that's ANOTHER metaphor. Why would God wipe out the dinosaurs, to
> provide oil for his worshippers in SUVs and motorboats? Oh sure, they
> are fulfilling the prophecies that big is good, if you ever find one.
> They no doubt would have sided with Rome at its prime (not the Vatican
> but the Roman Empire).
>
> But what if God decides to wipe out the new dinosaurs and make room
> for the furry little mammals? Perhaps that would be the Second Coming
> of Jesus on a donkey --or bicycle or canoe. Then the cyclists and
> canoeists will lead the next revolution...
>
> For those who only listen to the preacherman, here's what the Bible
> says...
>
> John's gospel records that Jesus rejected the call to be their warrior
> king. Mounting a young donkey, he rode into Jerusalem, fulfilling the
> prophecy of Zephaniah: "Fear not, Daughter of Sion, your king is
> coming, mounted on a donkey's colt."
>
> Not a fearsome warrior, he was the humble king the prophet described.
> In Jerusalem he would open his arms to the poor outcasts of the
> world..
>
> "At the time his disciples did not understand this..." John
> concludes.
>
> http://www.cptryon.org/prayer/season/palm.html



Seems to me the best metaphor (or maybe contrast) is Don Quixote
attacking windmills that he believes to be ferocious giants. One would
think that a poster called donquijote might pick up on this....
 >> Stay informed about: Send a message to the big predators: the little fish have .. 

On Feb 21, 1:03 pm, "Moby Dick" <Dick.Roches....DeleteThis@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 21, 12:11 pm, "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob....DeleteThis@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 21, 12:24 pm, "cramer...@gmail.com" <cramer....DeleteThis@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 18, 4:03 pm, "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob....DeleteThis@hotmail.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > T-SHIRTS TO CHANGE THE WORLD...
>
> > > > In any case, you may have decided you had it with the stupid beast,
> > > > and you've decided to give a chance to the smart and small, just like
> > > > a bike or canoe. "Do not feed the dinosaur" seems like a good start.
>
> > > I'm OK with the sentiment, but I'm having trouble with the metaphor.
> > > SUVs and motorboats run on dead dinosaurs. They don't feed them. Good
> > > luck with your campaign.
>
> > > Steve
>
> > Oh, that's ANOTHER metaphor. Why would God wipe out the dinosaurs, to
> > provide oil for his worshippers in SUVs and motorboats? Oh sure, they
> > are fulfilling the prophecies that big is good, if you ever find one.
> > They no doubt would have sided with Rome at its prime (not the Vatican
> > but the Roman Empire).
>
> > But what if God decides to wipe out the new dinosaurs and make room
> > for the furry little mammals? Perhaps that would be the Second Coming
> > of Jesus on a donkey --or bicycle or canoe. Then the cyclists and
> > canoeists will lead the next revolution...
>
> > For those who only listen to the preacherman, here's what the Bible
> > says...
>
> > John's gospel records that Jesus rejected the call to be their warrior
> > king. Mounting a young donkey, he rode into Jerusalem, fulfilling the
> > prophecy of Zephaniah: "Fear not, Daughter of Sion, your king is
> > coming, mounted on a donkey's colt."
>
> > Not a fearsome warrior, he was the humble king the prophet described.
> > In Jerusalem he would open his arms to the poor outcasts of the
> > world..
>
> > "At the time his disciples did not understand this..." John
> > concludes.
>
> >http://www.cptryon.org/prayer/season/palm.html
>
> Seems to me the best metaphor (or maybe contrast) is Don Quixote
> attacking windmills that he believes to be ferocious giants. One would
> think that a poster called donquijote might pick up on this....


See (especially the last paragraph) http://www.cliffsnotes.com/WileyCDA/LitNote/id-87,pageNum-12.html.
 >> Stay informed about: Send a message to the big predators: the little fish have .. 

On Feb 21, 3:03 pm, "Moby Dick" <Dick.Roches... RemoveThis @gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 21, 12:11 pm, "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob... RemoveThis @hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 21, 12:24 pm, "cramer...@gmail.com" <cramer... RemoveThis @gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 18, 4:03 pm, "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob... RemoveThis @hotmail.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > T-SHIRTS TO CHANGE THE WORLD...
>
> > > > In any case, you may have decided you had it with the stupid beast,
> > > > and you've decided to give a chance to the smart and small, just like
> > > > a bike or canoe. "Do not feed the dinosaur" seems like a good start.
>
> > > I'm OK with the sentiment, but I'm having trouble with the metaphor.
> > > SUVs and motorboats run on dead dinosaurs. They don't feed them. Good
> > > luck with your campaign.
>
> > > Steve
>
> > Oh, that's ANOTHER metaphor. Why would God wipe out the dinosaurs, to
> > provide oil for his worshippers in SUVs and motorboats? Oh sure, they
> > are fulfilling the prophecies that big is good, if you ever find one.
> > They no doubt would have sided with Rome at its prime (not the Vatican
> > but the Roman Empire).
>
> > But what if God decides to wipe out the new dinosaurs and make room
> > for the furry little mammals? Perhaps that would be the Second Coming
> > of Jesus on a donkey --or bicycle or canoe. Then the cyclists and
> > canoeists will lead the next revolution...
>
> > For those who only listen to the preacherman, here's what the Bible
> > says...
>
> > John's gospel records that Jesus rejected the call to be their warrior
> > king. Mounting a young donkey, he rode into Jerusalem, fulfilling the
> > prophecy of Zephaniah: "Fear not, Daughter of Sion, your king is
> > coming, mounted on a donkey's colt."
>
> > Not a fearsome warrior, he was the humble king the prophet described.
> > In Jerusalem he would open his arms to the poor outcasts of the
> > world..
>
> > "At the time his disciples did not understand this..." John
> > concludes.
>
> >http://www.cptryon.org/prayer/season/palm.html
>
> Seems to me the best metaphor (or maybe contrast) is Don Quixote
> attacking windmills that he believes to be ferocious giants. One would
> think that a poster called donquijote might pick up on this....- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

If you stand your ground before a charging motorboat, then you really
fear no giants. But I do. They give me the creeps, just like when I'm
on the water and I see a fin circling me.

Then you realize you must meet your fate and dress like a knight...

(hey, this is heavy duty stuff, like to charge at the giant
corporations behind SUVs and motorboats)

DON QUIXOTE VS THE WINDMILLS!

When the environmental crisis worsens, how can one remain passive?
Neither the Rio Earth Summit nor the Kyoto Protocol, regrettably, will
do much, particularly when the worst predator refuses to participate.
A big change is needed--or else.

I have been long enough on this planet to witness, not the use, but
the reckless abuse of resources. While the system measures "success"
by the size of the vehicle and the motorboat there can be no solution.
And while the system denies space for bicycles and other efficient
alternatives there can be no solution.

I have, however, a few earthy proposals:

1. INCREASE THE PRICE OF GASOLINE, such as in Europe and Japan. The
revenue so raised could be used to IMPROVE ALTERNATIVE
TRANSPORTATION*, from fast trains to the creation of BICICLE LANES
along all major streets.

2. Open letters from parents to children, perhaps encouraged via the
schools, in which the parents vow to specific lifestyle changes. Such
letters are to be conspicuously displayed in the home. For example, it
could say, "Ride bicycle to work," etc.

Let's give life to our children, not a subsistence of rats. Don
Quixote would have said: "Sancho, let's go for the giants!"

*"A massive public works project that did not expand the deficit would
help; something like a massive clean energy program or nationwide high-
speed rail network financed by new taxes on pollution and fossil
fuels. A more progressive tax system would help as well. Both seem
inconceivable since the Bush administration wants to spend public
works dollars on Mars not earth, and Congress that has just enacted
tax breaks that exacerbate the wealth gap."
http://www.eugenelinden.com/news280.html

***

Don Quixotes of the Environment
"I feel like Don Quixote, but quite the contrary," says Marina Silva.
"Don Quixote fought windmills, thinking he was fighting giants. I
fight giants thinking I am fighting windmills."
http://www.sdearthtimes.com/et0298/et0298s6.html
 >> Stay informed about: Send a message to the big predators: the little fish have .. 

On Feb 21, 3:11 pm, "Moby Dick" <Dick.Roches....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 21, 1:03 pm, "Moby Dick" <Dick.Roches....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 21, 12:11 pm, "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 21, 12:24 pm, "cramer...@gmail.com" <cramer....TakeThisOut@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 18, 4:03 pm, "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > T-SHIRTS TO CHANGE THE WORLD...
>
> > > > > In any case, you may have decided you had it with the stupid beast,
> > > > > and you've decided to give a chance to the smart and small, just like
> > > > > a bike or canoe. "Do not feed the dinosaur" seems like a good start.
>
> > > > I'm OK with the sentiment, but I'm having trouble with the metaphor.
> > > > SUVs and motorboats run on dead dinosaurs. They don't feed them. Good
> > > > luck with your campaign.
>
> > > > Steve
>
> > > Oh, that's ANOTHER metaphor. Why would God wipe out the dinosaurs, to
> > > provide oil for his worshippers in SUVs and motorboats? Oh sure, they
> > > are fulfilling the prophecies that big is good, if you ever find one.
> > > They no doubt would have sided with Rome at its prime (not the Vatican
> > > but the Roman Empire).
>
> > > But what if God decides to wipe out the new dinosaurs and make room
> > > for the furry little mammals? Perhaps that would be the Second Coming
> > > of Jesus on a donkey --or bicycle or canoe. Then the cyclists and
> > > canoeists will lead the next revolution...
>
> > > For those who only listen to the preacherman, here's what the Bible
> > > says...
>
> > > John's gospel records that Jesus rejected the call to be their warrior
> > > king. Mounting a young donkey, he rode into Jerusalem, fulfilling the
> > > prophecy of Zephaniah: "Fear not, Daughter of Sion, your king is
> > > coming, mounted on a donkey's colt."
>
> > > Not a fearsome warrior, he was the humble king the prophet described.
> > > In Jerusalem he would open his arms to the poor outcasts of the
> > > world..
>
> > > "At the time his disciples did not understand this..." John
> > > concludes.
>
> > >http://www.cptryon.org/prayer/season/palm.html
>
> > Seems to me the best metaphor (or maybe contrast) is Don Quixote
> > attacking windmills that he believes to be ferocious giants. One would
> > think that a poster called donquijote might pick up on this....
>
> See (especially the last paragraph)http://www.cliffsnotes.com/WileyCDA/LitNote/id-87,pageNum-12.html.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Been there, done that...

The combat with the windmill is rich in symbolism. It does not matter
whether the ponderous machine stands for stultified human institutions
that need attacking, or ancient traditions that must be newly
questioned, or totalitarian government requiring renewal by
revolution, or bureaucracy being attacked by individual demands. What
matters is that only a positive act of will is capable of attacking
anything, and the success or failure is unimportant. "Thy triumph, my
Don Quixote," writes Unamuno, "Was ever a triumph of daring, not of
succeeding." Not only is Don Quixote victorious because he dares; he
is always spiritually triumphant as well. He has a stoical ability to
disregard his physical failures and is willing to follow his
adventures after a slight recovery.
 >> Stay informed about: Send a message to the big predators: the little fish have .. 

On Feb 21, 1:16 pm, "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob... DeleteThis @hotmail.com>
wrote:
> On Feb 21, 3:03 pm, "Moby Dick" <Dick.Roches... DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 21, 12:11 pm, "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob... DeleteThis @hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 21, 12:24 pm, "cramer...@gmail.com" <cramer... DeleteThis @gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On Feb 18, 4:03 pm, "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob... DeleteThis @hotmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > T-SHIRTS TO CHANGE THE WORLD...
>
> > > > > In any case, you may have decided you had it with the stupid beast,
> > > > > and you've decided to give a chance to the smart and small, just like
> > > > > a bike or canoe. "Do not feed the dinosaur" seems like a good start.
>
> > > > I'm OK with the sentiment, but I'm having trouble with the metaphor.
> > > > SUVs and motorboats run on dead dinosaurs. They don't feed them. Good
> > > > luck with your campaign.
>
> > > > Steve
>
> > > Oh, that's ANOTHER metaphor. Why would God wipe out the dinosaurs, to
> > > provide oil for his worshippers in SUVs and motorboats? Oh sure, they
> > > are fulfilling the prophecies that big is good, if you ever find one.
> > > They no doubt would have sided with Rome at its prime (not the Vatican
> > > but the Roman Empire).
>
> > > But what if God decides to wipe out the new dinosaurs and make room
> > > for the furry little mammals? Perhaps that would be the Second Coming
> > > of Jesus on a donkey --or bicycle or canoe. Then the cyclists and
> > > canoeists will lead the next revolution...
>
> > > For those who only listen to the preacherman, here's what the Bible
> > > says...
>
> > > John's gospel records that Jesus rejected the call to be their warrior
> > > king. Mounting a young donkey, he rode into Jerusalem, fulfilling the
> > > prophecy of Zephaniah: "Fear not, Daughter of Sion, your king is
> > > coming, mounted on a donkey's colt."
>
> > > Not a fearsome warrior, he was the humble king the prophet described.
> > > In Jerusalem he would open his arms to the poor outcasts of the
> > > world..
>
> > > "At the time his disciples did not understand this..." John
> > > concludes.
>
> > >http://www.cptryon.org/prayer/season/palm.html
>
> > Seems to me the best metaphor (or maybe contrast) is Don Quixote
> > attacking windmills that he believes to be ferocious giants. One would
> > think that a poster called donquijote might pick up on this....- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> If you stand your ground before a charging motorboat, then you really
> fear no giants. But I do. They give me the creeps, just like when I'm
> on the water and I see a fin circling me.
>
> Then you realize you must meet your fate and dress like a knight...
>
> (hey, this is heavy duty stuff, like to charge at the giant
> corporations behind SUVs and motorboats)
>
> DON QUIXOTE VS THE WINDMILLS!
>
> When the environmental crisis worsens, how can one remain passive?
> Neither the Rio Earth Summit nor the Kyoto Protocol, regrettably, will
> do much, particularly when the worst predator refuses to participate.
> A big change is needed--or else.
>
> I have been long enough on this planet to witness, not the use, but
> the reckless abuse of resources. While the system measures "success"
> by the size of the vehicle and the motorboat there can be no solution.
> And while the system denies space for bicycles and other efficient
> alternatives there can be no solution.
>
> I have, however, a few earthy proposals:
>
> 1. INCREASE THE PRICE OF GASOLINE, such as in Europe and Japan. The
> revenue so raised could be used to IMPROVE ALTERNATIVE
> TRANSPORTATION*, from fast trains to the creation of BICICLE LANES
> along all major streets.
>
> 2. Open letters from parents to children, perhaps encouraged via the
> schools, in which the parents vow to specific lifestyle changes. Such
> letters are to be conspicuously displayed in the home. For example, it
> could say, "Ride bicycle to work," etc.
>
> Let's give life to our children, not a subsistence of rats. Don
> Quixote would have said: "Sancho, let's go for the giants!"
>
> *"A massive public works project that did not expand the deficit would
> help; something like a massive clean energy program or nationwide high-
> speed rail network financed by new taxes on pollution and fossil
> fuels. A more progressive tax system would help as well. Both seem
> inconceivable since the Bush administration wants to spend public
> works dollars on Mars not earth, and Congress that has just enacted
> tax breaks that exacerbate the wealth gap."http://www.eugenelinden.com/news280.html
>
> ***
>
> Don Quixotes of the Environment
> "I feel like Don Quixote, but quite the contrary," says Marina Silva.
> "Don Quixote fought windmills, thinking he was fighting giants. I
> fight giants thinking I am fighting windmills."http://www.sdearthtimes.com/et0298/et0298s6.html


Good responses but I take issue with a few things.

I'm not convinced the government can do better at developing
alternative fuels than the competive marketplace. In fact, investors
may be holding out in hopes of getting a piece of pie from the
govenrment instead fo forging investments themselves. Also, I view the
biggest impediments to mass transit like trains and subways as the
airline and auto lobby, not the gas lobby. Oh, and our devotion to
property rights isn't helping either.


I've spent a lot of time in Europe. I don't think the price of gas is
preventing them from pollutiong. I think they have population density
advantages. When a European can afford a big car, they get one, just
like Americans. That's just my experience, not a scientific study.


Regarding the Kyoto protocol and the "worst predator": heck no I
wouldn't join up for these either since somehow China and India are
left out. On the whole those countries may be second or third world
but regions are definitely some of the world's worse polluters, east
China for example.

Regarding public works -- FDR proved deficit spending can spur the
econmy. Various presidents have used that technique again and again.
Putting someone or something on Mars wilpsur technology just like
putting a man on the moon did. BTW, IIIRC, Bush is spending a lot on
fuel cells and clean coal. Both are good things. We should be allowing
nuclear power, too.

Just my opinion. Not wanting to start a fight.
 >> Stay informed about: Send a message to the big predators: the little fish have .. 

> SUVs and motorboats run on dead dinosaurs

Maybe that's because they don't.
Oil is not made of dead dinos.
It's made from decaying vegetation. Most vegetation that grows has oils in
it.
When it dies, it has to go somewhere. So, is oil so bad?



--
Bob Noble
www.sonic.net/bnoble
<cramersec.RemoveThis@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172078640.887595.102070@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 18, 4:03 pm, "donquijote1954" <nolionnoprob....RemoveThis@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>> T-SHIRTS TO CHANGE THE WORLD...
>>
>> In any case, you may have decided you had it with the stupid beast,
>> and you've decided to give a chance to the smart and small, just like
>> a bike or canoe. "Do not feed the dinosaur" seems like a good start.
>
> I'm OK with the sentiment, but I'm having trouble with the metaphor.
> SUVs and motorboats run on dead dinosaurs. They don't feed them. Good
> luck with your campaign.
>
> Steve
>
 >> Stay informed about: Send a message to the big predators: the little fish have .. 

Bob Noble wrote:
>> SUVs and motorboats run on dead dinosaurs
>
> Maybe that's because they don't.
> Oil is not made of dead dinos.
> It's made from decaying vegetation. Most vegetation that grows has oils in
> it.
> When it dies, it has to go somewhere. So, is oil so bad?

I don't recall anyone saying oil was bad.

Petroleum comes from decaying organic matter: plants, animals, fish,
whatever, including dinosaurs. Perhaps even the little furry guys,
although i don't know if they've been around long enough.

Y'all, I apologize for responding to that DQ wacko. I should have known
better.

Steve
 >> Stay informed about: Send a message to the big predators: the little fish have .. 

In article <GF5Dh.154$X34.90@newsfe04.lga>,
Steve Cramer <cramersec.RemoveThis@charter.net> wrote:

> Bob Noble wrote:
> >> SUVs and motorboats run on dead dinosaurs
> >
> > Maybe that's because they don't.
> > Oil is not made of dead dinos.
> > It's made from decaying vegetation. Most vegetation that grows has oils in
> > it.
> > When it dies, it has to go somewhere. So, is oil so bad?
>
> I don't recall anyone saying oil was bad.
>
> Petroleum comes from decaying organic matter: plants, animals, fish,
> whatever, including dinosaurs. Perhaps even the little furry guys,
> although i don't know if they've been around long enough.

There is some evidence that it even comes from non-biological
hydrocarbon sources, specifically methan outgassing from deed rock.
 >> Stay informed about: Send a message to the big predators: the little fish have .. 

Steve Hix wrote:
> In article <GF5Dh.154$X34.90@newsfe04.lga>,
> Steve Cramer <cramersec RemoveThis @charter.net> wrote:
>
>> Bob Noble wrote:
>>>> SUVs and motorboats run on dead dinosaurs
>>> Maybe that's because they don't.
>>> Oil is not made of dead dinos.
>>> It's made from decaying vegetation. Most vegetation that grows has oils in
>>> it.
>>> When it dies, it has to go somewhere. So, is oil so bad?
>> I don't recall anyone saying oil was bad.
>>
>> Petroleum comes from decaying organic matter: plants, animals, fish,
>> whatever, including dinosaurs. Perhaps even the little furry guys,
>> although i don't know if they've been around long enough.
>
> There is some evidence that it even comes from non-biological
> hydrocarbon sources, specifically methan outgassing from deed rock.

Right, I've just come across that idea. Would be nice if it's true.
There may be more of the stuff down there than we thought. I think we
shouldn't count on that, though.

Steve
 >> Stay informed about: Send a message to the big predators: the little fish have .. 

I'm recycling here some post, since both bikes and canoes, represent
the same thing: David vs. Goliath...

> >>>It is a matter of historical record that bicycling groups were the first
> >>>to push the Good Roads Movement.
>
> >>It's ALSO a matter of historical record that they basically failed.
>
> > No they didn't. What happened was, since bicycles and automobiles
> > were more-or-less contemporary with each other, drivers usurped the
> > developing Good Roads Movement to their advantage. So the Good
> > Roads Movement was originally initiated and kick-started by
> > bicyclists. But the car drivers later stole it.
>
> Of course, a reason bicyclists "failed" is that motorists were able to
> pay for roads due to the taxation of gas. Thank you motorists, even if
> you tried to usurp bicyclists' initial efforts as your own.
>
> Wayne

Thank you, American people, for subsidizing gas so the SUVs can
prosper and multiply...

"gas has been so crucial to our economy in the governments eyes that
they have subsidized a large portion of oil production, through
programs, tax-exemptions, and the hiding of pollution costs through
pollution permits. They have through intervention put off an
inevitable end-we will run out of gas sometime, if we continue forcing
prices down on a scarce product. In fact, government has actually
contributed to the overconsumption of oil. When government subsidizes
something (meaning they pay for a portion of it so that the consumers
don't have to) they effectively raise the demand for a product far
beyond where it naturally should be. They make it cheaper for the
companies to produce it and thus cheaper for consumers. This process
distorts market balance, because it hides costs, and creates what is
known as a moral hazard. If companies had to pay all the costs out of
their own pockets, they would produce less, and with a smaller output,
the cost would rise, and consumers would demand less and slowly ween
themselves off of this product and substitute another for it. They
would find communal travel, or alternate means of energy, things that
are both economically efficient and in the long run even better for
the environment. But because the government has absorbed the costs of
production, they have encouraged overconsumption of this good to the
extent that any miscalculation in their plan will result in the prices
skyrocketing towards the price equilibrium where oil naturally should
be, which is near 5 dollars per gallon or more. It is this type of
economic incentive that spurs innovation and gaurds scarce resources
from overconsumption.

The best solution I can think of now is to let the prices of gas..."

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