Do our paddling $s fund terrorism?

"Dalcio K. Dacol" <riobaldo.RemoveThis@starpower.net> wrote in message news:<3EF76F15.EC18C52.RemoveThis@starpower.net>...
 > Sharon wrote:
  > >
  > > It is possible.
  > >
  > > The First Islamic Investment group owns Watermark (Dagger, Perception,
  > > Wilderness Systems, Yakima and associated gear) as well as Caribou
  > > Coffee.
  > >
  > > It is questionable, maybe probable, and worth considering if you are
  > > concerned where your $ goes.
  > >
  > > ...
  > > When I found out about the First Islamic Investment group owning
  > > Watermark, Yakima and Caribou, I was shocked.
  > >
  > > How do you feel about it?
 >
 >
  > Doesn't bother me as much as the ethnic/religious prejudice evidenced
 > in your message.
 >
  > By the way do you drive a car? The gas you use is a much more
 > certain source of funding for terrorism and our dependence on imported
 > oil demands our continued military presence in other people's lands.
 >
 >
 > Dalcio

I did not name the group "First Islamic Investment Group". It is not a
religious group, it is an investment group that uses the tenets of
their religion and has been known to support the PLO. I did a little
research and found some things that made me wary.

Where is the ethnic/religious prejudice? Please don't attack me. I am
just trying to see how others feel about this. I can be shocked about
this news and I can choose how/where I spend my $.

If you do a search on this group, you will see that there has been
suspicion of ties to terrorism. While this may not be proven, it is
certainly a possibility. It is no secret that wealthy sheiks funded
Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda. Why shouldn't I be suspicious given the
current status of the world?

-Sh<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Do our paddling $s fund terrorism? 

On 23-Jun-2003, "Dalcio K. Dacol" <riobaldo.DeleteThis@starpower.net> wrote:

 > Doesn't bother me as much as the ethnic/religious prejudice evidenced
 > in your message.

Minimal test - replace Arab with Jew and Islam with Israel and see how it
sounds. Racism is racism regardless of the victims.

 > By the way do you drive a car? The gas you use is a much more
 > certain source of funding for terrorism and our dependence on imported
 > oil demands our continued military presence in other people's lands.

Shhh... you don't want to inject any reality into their paranoid delusions.

Mike<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Do our paddling $s fund terrorism? 

"Michael Daly" <michaeldaly.RemoveThis@rogers.notthis.com> wrote in message news:<qcLJa.9680$bRt.4041@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...
 > On 23-Jun-2003, "Dalcio K. Dacol" <riobaldo.RemoveThis@starpower.net> wrote:
 >
  > > Doesn't bother me as much as the ethnic/religious prejudice evidenced
  > > in your message.
 >
 > Minimal test - replace Arab with Jew and Islam with Israel and see how it
 > sounds. Racism is racism regardless of the victims.
 >
  > > By the way do you drive a car? The gas you use is a much more
  > > certain source of funding for terrorism and our dependence on imported
  > > oil demands our continued military presence in other people's lands.
 >
 > Shhh... you don't want to inject any reality into their paranoid delusions.
 >
 > Mike

I posted that because I was curious how othes felt. I had difficulty
not injecting my personal feelings, partly because I come from a
minority that has been persecutred throughout history, who been the
victim of racism. I have lived in the middle east. I know that many
Arabs (not all, but a lot) dislike Americans. They teach their
children hate at a very young age. It is very scarey and very sad.
They are getting angry, and many are willing to die for their cause,
killing innocent people in the name of their god. If this doesn't
scare you, then you aren't awake.

If there is even a remote chance that First Islamic is funding
terrorists, I do not want to support that company if I have a choice.
In the meantime, I'll get my fuel from Sunoco, Phillips, Citgo or BP.
They buy little if any Arab oil.

I am surprised at the knee-jerk liberal responses. While I like to
consider myself liberal on most subjects, I have very conservative
views about people who kill innocent people in the name of their god.
Unfortunately that god has been Allah too many times. Why shouldn't I
be worried about that? and why wouldn't I be wary of First Islamic
Investements? If you aren't, you either are very complacent or you
aren't paying attention.

Pick up last week's Newsweek. Sure, its a popular news rag. It can be
very informative about what is going on in this world through
investigative reporting. There is a very interesting article about Al
Qaeda in this country (cover story June 15). I'm sure it is easy to
not pay any attention to this, and go on your merry way, being the
American consumer with so many choices of things to buy, places to go,
things to do. But while you are doing all that, there are some evil
Islamic people in this country, are trying to figure out ways to
paralyze our country and kill many Americans. (BTW, I didn't say all
Islamic people are evil, I just said the there are Evil Islamic
people...I must clarify as I do not want to be called a racist, and
knee-jerk liberals seem to read into what I say). It may not be far
from the truth to say that Evil Islamic people are being funded by
wealthy investment companies.

I guess I'm disappointed in the response. I really thought people
would be concerned about First Islamic Investments owning a paddling
gear company. I guess paddlers really don't care. Or the ones that do
are too scared to come forward and voice their opinions in this forum.

-Sh<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Do our paddling $s fund terrorism? 

Sharon <heller DeleteThis @tompkins-co.org> wrote:

 > The First Islamic Investment group owns Watermark (Dagger, Perception,
 > Wilderness Systems, Yakima and associated gear) as well as Caribou Coffee.
 >
 > ... How do you feel about it?

My initial feeling was denial, then shock, grieving, and finally apathy.
But, unlike many Internet assertions, it does appear possibly true!

<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.crescentcapital.com/watermark.htm" target="_blank">http://www.crescentcapital.com/watermark.htm</a>
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://195.217.245.183/watermark.html" target="_blank">http://195.217.245.183/watermark.html</a>
  (195.217.245.1 looks up as inaddr.uk.interliant.com)

According to something I read somewhere, Islam is compatible with and
encouraging of environmentalism. You gotta admit, Watermark has made
better investments and provided higher value to customers than Enron did.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Do our paddling $s fund terrorism? 

Sounds like it's been a commendable success. Certainly there seems
to be some new life in the Dagger product line!

FYI, although some folks may get all jumpy whenever they hear the
word "Islamic" these days, there are reasons why Middle Eastern
investment companies would have "Islamic" in their name or their
literature -- reasons having nothing to do with either
fundamentalism or terrorism. In a nutshell, there are religious
restrictions on how Muslims may make a profit, somewhat analagous to
pre-Protestant Christianity's injunction against lending money for
interest (but with different particulars and reasoning). Thus,
"Islamic" investment companies and "Islamic" banks provide Muslims
with a business through which they can freely invest, knowing that
the profits they make are within the constraints of their religion.
Ain't nothin' sinister about it a-tall.

--
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros malmros RemoveThis @shore.net
   Some days you're the windshield,
   Other days you're the bug.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Do our paddling $s fund terrorism? 

On 23-Jun-2003, heller.TakeThisOut@tompkins-co.org (Sharon) wrote:

 > Why shouldn't I be suspicious given the current status of the world?

Don't confuse the current status of the US with the current status of the
world.

Mike<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Do our paddling $s fund terrorism? 

On 23-Jun-2003, heller DeleteThis @tompkins-co.org (Sharon) wrote:

 > Arabs (not all, but a lot) dislike Americans. [...] If this doesn't
 > scare you, then you aren't awake.

As I said in another post - don't confuse America with the world.

 > In the meantime, I'll get my fuel from Sunoco, Phillips, Citgo or BP.
 > They buy little if any Arab oil.

Any oil from any source equates to a global oil market. Where it
comes from is irrelevant. If you buy from A and someone else from
B or you from B and them from A it still keeps up a price that
supports both A and B. It isn't who you buy from but whether you
buy at all.

 > Pick up last week's Newsweek. Sure, its a popular news rag. [...]

Hmmm, the American media was filled with stories about weapons of
mass destruction in Iraq. Said weapons seem to have magically evaporated
and US citizens still supports the liars in power. Now the liars in power are
continuing to fill the media with scare stories to keep the US citizens in
line. Perhaps it isn't us furriners who aren't paying attention,

Mike<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Do our paddling $s fund terrorism? 

Sharon,

My wife and I just bought two very comfortable inflatable Yakima SOS
lifejackets which was made about 30 miles away from our home.

So what I see is a locally-made product and investment in my own country.
When I turn over the Compaq laptop computer on which this message is
being typed I see Made in Taiwan.

Both Bahrain and Taiwan are friendly to the United States.

I must admit to some initial feelings of shock and prejudice, but I try not
to let my racist upbringing control my words and actions, or to pass
on the infection to my children or associates.

I would prefer that U.S. companies invest in jobs in America. Given that
many U.S. companies do not do so, I think that this investment in our
outdoor lifestyle by wealthy Arabs is a good thing.

Dave

"Sharon" <heller.TakeThisOut@tompkins-co.org> wrote in message
news:53778418.0306231247.1e81fd63@posting.google.com...
 > It is possible.
 >
 > The First Islamic Investment group owns Watermark (Dagger, Perception,
 > Wilderness Systems, Yakima and associated gear) as well as Caribou
 > Coffee.
 >
 > It is questionable, maybe probable, and worth considering if you are
 > concerned where your $ goes.
 >
 > I did some research. It seems more probable from what I've read. Can't
 > really prove anything. But I'm not taking any chances. Do your own web
 > search and see what comes up.
 >
 > I was outraged when I heard that an Arab investment company from
 > Bahrain has significant holdings in outdoor equipment, which includes
 > a lot of paddling gear as well as Caribou Coffee. I will not buy gear
 > from the above mentioned companies and will try as much as possible to
 > support American companies. Though I cannot directly prove terrorist
 > ties, the possibility is there and there is a lot we will never know.
 > I'm not taking any chances. I know it is difficult, but we, as good
 > Americans, should try to keep our $ in this country whenever possible.
 > I think that should be fairly easy with paddling gear. There are
 > plenty of US manufacturers of high quality American made boats and
 > gear. I also do not want to support Arab concerns. I have friends who
 > are Islamic. They have earned my trust. The First Islamic Investment
 > group has not earned my trust. I do not have any reason to believe
 > that they are my friends. I also have reason to believe that there are
 > 100s of thousands of Arabs out there who do not like me and my people
 > and my way of life. All I have to do is turn on the news or pick up a
 > newpaper.
 >
 > When I found out about the First Islamic Investment group owning
 > Watermark, Yakima and Caribou, I was shocked.
 >
 > How do you feel about it?<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Do our paddling $s fund terrorism? 

Sharon wrote:
 >
 > The First Islamic Investment group owns Watermark (Dagger, > Perception, Wilderness Systems, Yakima and associated gear)
 > as well as Caribou Coffee.

Ehm Sharon, where does it say that "Islamic" equates "terrorism"?


 > It is questionable, maybe probable, and worth considering if you
 > are concerned where your $ goes.

I'm not that worried about a certain investment organisation, especially
after seeing the herd of terrorism-funding companies and investment
funds that have been closed by terrorism-fearing governments.

*If* I were worried about where my money goes, it would be more a matter
of not buying a certain country's products. In which case boycotting
U.S. products comes to mind, since that country's government has invaded
several other countries on false pretexts.
But I'm not that worried about where my money goes, so I won't boycott
any U.S. products (ordered new elbow pads from a U.S. company yesterday)

 > I was outraged when I heard that an Arab investment company from
 > Bahrain has significant holdings in outdoor equipment, which includes
 > a lot of paddling gear as well as Caribou Coffee. I will not buy > gear from the above mentioned companies and will try as much as
 > possible to support American companies.

Get real: how many of the U.S. manufacturers are still owned by U.S.
companies? Loans to invest in the U.S. come from all over the world, and
I bet you don't have a clue as to how your country's economy is kept
floating because of foreign loans.

 > Though I cannot directly prove terrorist ties, the possibility
 > is there and there is a lot we will never know. I'm not taking
 > any chances. I know it is difficult, but we, as good
 > Americans, should try to keep our $ in this country whenever
 > possible.

Import and export requires buying stuff from others and selling to
others. If you think that buying just U.S. products and keeping your
money inside the country would be a good thing, think again. Who will
buy U.S. products if the U.S. deliberately doesn't import non-U.S.
products? That suggestion doesn't work.

Besides, the recent plunge in the value of the U.S. dollar doesn't
exactly help paying off foreign loans...

 > I also have reason to believe that there are 100s of thousands
 > of Arabs out there who do not like me and my people
 > and my way of life. All I have to do is turn on the news or
 > pick up a newpaper.

So do something about it. Why do you think that so many people (many of
whom aren't Arabic or islamic) dislike the U.S. right now? It's for a
big part because of the character you have leading your country, his
cronies and the a-social, illegal and utterly unethical actions they
think they can get away with.

--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko.DeleteThis@dse.nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://wilko.webzone.ru/" target="_blank">http://wilko.webzone.ru/</a><!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
 >> Stay informed about: Do our paddling $s fund terrorism?