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Gabriel Latrémouil

External


Since: Apr 17, 2004
Posts: 4



(Msg. 1) Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:59 pm
Post subject: price of charts - electronic & paper
Archived from groups: can>rec>boating, others (more info?)

This news release is troubling. How much more are you willing/able to pay
for charts?

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
For More Information Contact: Susan James, Navionics

Price of Electronic Charts Set to Double in Canada
Wareham, MA, January 10, 2004 - Canadian boaters, marine electronics dealers
and marine safety organizations
will soon be faced with a doubling of retail prices for electronic nautical
charts in Canada. The price increase is
due to a demand by the Canadian Hydrographic Service (CHS) and their
exclusive distributor Nautical Data
International (NDI) to charge high royalties for the rights to reproduce
Canadian nautical chart information
electronically.
In a surprise notice circulated during the opening day of the Toronto boat
show, the Canadian Hydrographic
Service refers to the Crown copyright of Canadian charts and infers that
some electronic charts are illegal. The
timing and tone of the notice is surprising in light of ongoing good faith
and long term efforts made by a consortium
of private chart manufacturers to reach an agreement with CHS/NDI.
There is unanimous agreement amongst the Canadian marine industry and the
private chart manufacturers that
a 50% royalty demand is not reasonable. In the rest of the worlds royalty
agreements range from 15% of
wholesale price to zero royalty. This royalty tax will have a negative
impact on Canadian boating safety,
environmental safety, marine equipment sales and tourism, because it will
put the price of electronic charts
beyond the means of many Canadian boaters. In the US and New Zealand the
hydrographic service does not
charge royalties in order to keep the price of charts as low as possible,
and thus promote wider use and safety of
navigation.
According to Bruce Angus of Navionics, there is a further irony because most
electronics charts on the market
in Canada do not use any NDI value-added data or services. Most electronic
charts from private manufacturers
are derived from the paper chart originals of the CHS, thus the CHS agreemen
t with NDI provides to them with
a monopolistic license to tax Canadian boaters without any added benefit.
Angus added that the ultimate decision will be made by CHS and Navionics
will honor it, but added that the
Canadian public and marine industry should participate in this decision to
ensure the public interest is represented
and boating navigation safety is maintained.
For further information please contact Navionics Inc. at the address above
or at the Toronto Boat Show, Booth#G360


Mr. Mohammad Al Zaibak
Chief Executive
Nautical Data International
1 Military Road
St. John's, NFLD A1C 2C3
Fax: 416-322-5222

Mr. Denis Hains
Acting Dominion Hydrographer and Director General
Canadian Hydrographic Service
615 Booth Street
Ottawa, Ontario K1A0F6
Tel: (613)995-4413
Fax: (613) 996-9053

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guser

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Since: Jan 29, 2005
Posts: 67



(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 2:10 pm
Post subject: Re: price of charts - electronic & paper [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

This message is not archived

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rick19

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Since: Dec 08, 2003
Posts: 6



(Msg. 3) Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 2:27 am
Post subject: Re: price of charts - electronic & paper [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Well that pretty well sums up what we have here in Canada: The tax payer
foots the bill for the data, the gov gives it to Mohamad- he charges a
premium to interfere with the timely delivery of safe charts. Many of the
charts are still British admiralty for god sake.

We can't even get G.D topo maps for the same reason!!!!! GARmin and the
Navtrek people tell me the problem of no preloaded Canadian data of any
value is because the "owners" of the data {formerly the Canadian
people}want far too much in licencing fees to make it worth including for
Canadian users...it is like we live in a GD 3rd world country where
everything public is up for graft!!! Am i bitter? you bet i am.
and lets even get started about FREE health care...FREE my ARSE! 20% tax
is no Free ride.
Rick


is with theOn Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:59:11 GMT, Gabriel Latrémouille
<gabriel3 DeleteThis @rogers.com> wrote:

 > This news release is troubling. How much more are you willing/able to pay
 > for charts?
 >
 > FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
 > For More Information Contact: Susan James, Navionics
 >
 > Price of Electronic Charts Set to Double in Canada
 > Wareham, MA, January 10, 2004 - Canadian boaters, marine electronics
 > dealers
 > and marine safety organizations
 > will soon be faced with a doubling of retail prices for electronic
 > nautical
 > charts in Canada. The price increase is
 > due to a demand by the Canadian Hydrographic Service (CHS) and their
 > exclusive distributor Nautical Data
 > International (NDI) to charge high royalties for the rights to reproduce
 > Canadian nautical chart information
 > electronically.
 > In a surprise notice circulated during the opening day of the Toronto
 > boat
 > show, the Canadian Hydrographic
 > Service refers to the Crown copyright of Canadian charts and infers that
 > some electronic charts are illegal. The
 > timing and tone of the notice is surprising in light of ongoing good
 > faith
 > and long term efforts made by a consortium
 > of private chart manufacturers to reach an agreement with CHS/NDI.
 > There is unanimous agreement amongst the Canadian marine industry and the
 > private chart manufacturers that
 > a 50% royalty demand is not reasonable. In the rest of the worlds royalty
 > agreements range from 15% of
 > wholesale price to zero royalty. This royalty tax will have a negative
 > impact on Canadian boating safety,
 > environmental safety, marine equipment sales and tourism, because it will
 > put the price of electronic charts
 > beyond the means of many Canadian boaters. In the US and New Zealand the
 > hydrographic service does not
 > charge royalties in order to keep the price of charts as low as possible,
 > and thus promote wider use and safety of
 > navigation.
 > According to Bruce Angus of Navionics, there is a further irony because
 > most
 > electronics charts on the market
 > in Canada do not use any NDI value-added data or services. Most
 > electronic
 > charts from private manufacturers
 > are derived from the paper chart originals of the CHS, thus the CHS
 > agreemen
 > t with NDI provides to them with
 > a monopolistic license to tax Canadian boaters without any added benefit.
 > Angus added that the ultimate decision will be made by CHS and Navionics
 > will honor it, but added that the
 > Canadian public and marine industry should participate in this decision
 > to
 > ensure the public interest is represented
 > and boating navigation safety is maintained.
 > For further information please contact Navionics Inc. at the address
 > above
 > or at the Toronto Boat Show, Booth#G360
 >
 >
 > Mr. Mohammad Al Zaibak
 > Chief Executive
 > Nautical Data International
 > 1 Military Road
 > St. John's, NFLD A1C 2C3
 > Fax: 416-322-5222
 >
 > Mr. Denis Hains
 > Acting Dominion Hydrographer and Director General
 > Canadian Hydrographic Service
 > 615 Booth Street
 > Ottawa, Ontario K1A0F6
 > Tel: (613)995-4413
 > Fax: (613) 996-9053
 >
 >



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Jean Dufour2

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Since: Jan 28, 2004
Posts: 7



(Msg. 4) Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 1:09 pm
Post subject: Re: price of charts - electronic & paper [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: can>rec>boating (more info?)

And in the meantime, for those of you who weren't aware of this, the US EN
charts are available for free over the NOAA website!

Wonder why? Well, it looks like the US government finally got something right
and it is about government copyrights. I first tought that the same threat of
class action that forced the NOAA to make their data available to everyone
could be possible here but it isn't. Canadian laws are different. See:

http://www.lexum.umontreal.ca/conf/dac/en/vaver/vaver.html

for an interesting comparison of both laws highlighting many of the stupid
bases for ours.

The only suspicious thing that might be chalengeable in law may be the
monopoly given to NDI, a company that can't even make their website in a
proper French. I dunno if the gov's sub-contractors providing services to the
general public in its behalf are subjects to the Official Languages Law but if
so, they also should be fined for publishing such crap!

Jean Dufour
Montreal, Qc
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guser

External


Since: Jan 29, 2005
Posts: 67



(Msg. 5) Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:54 am
Post subject: Re: price of charts - electronic & paper [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: can>rec>boating, others (more info?)

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