How to qualify 120 boats for final Gold/Silver fleets

External Since: Jul 30, 2003 Posts: 2

We (Hyannis YC) just finished our annual regatta and I'd like to ask for
comments on our experience with the 420 class. We expected about
60-70 boats but by Thursday (first race Friday), there were 122 boats
registered.

Race management in their wisdom decided to split the field up into four
colors: Red, Blue, Green, Yellow of 30 or 31 boats in each fleet. The plan
was to have a round robin of three races. In the first race the first start
would be Red and Blue; in the second start ten minutes later would be Green
and Yellow. This would reduce each start to a maximum of 62 boats. A
manageable number!

In the second race, the first start would be Red and Green; the second start
ten minutes later Blue and Yellow. In the third race the remaining
permutation would be used.

At the end of the round robin of either three or six races in the first day,
the entire fleet would be divided into a Gold and a Silver fleet for the
rest of the regatta. No scores from the qualifying round would carry over
into the final series.

At the end of the day, the first 15 boats from each fleet would be moved
into the Gold fleet for the finals. The others would go into the Silver
fleet.

If fact, we only had time for three races on Day 1 but it was a complete
round robin on which to base the separation.

IMHO management didn't design this round robin correctly. It would have been
fairer to take the top 60 boats from the three qualifying race
cumulative scores. Picking the top fifteen was unfair to someone who
happened to be in a fleet of top sailors but who would do well against the
average boats in the other fleets.

Is there a better way of separating out the players in a three day regatta?

ISAF has an Appendix KE that gives guidance to specifying the SIs for large
fleets (see http://www.sailing.org/rrs2001/KE011102.pdf). This uses a
reassignment of each boat to a different fleet each night (see Appendix C of
Appendix KE!). This mixes up the contestants so they all will sail against
each other. The selection into the Gold/Silver fleets is however done on the
basis of overall score at the end of the qualifiers. Since the fleets change
every night, it wouldn't be possible to take the first so many members of
any particular fleet.

Our results are at
http://www.hyannisyachtclub.org/quickresults/Regatta_Results.asp?NavID=9
that has a list of the qualifying and final scores.

Ed
--
Edward E.L. Mitchell
Web: www.racesail.org
Phone: (508)771-0806
500 Ocean St., Unit 134,
Hyannis, MA 02601

External Since: Jul 30, 2003 Posts: 5

Hello Ed,

Yes, it would be statistically fairer to pick the top 60, but only if the
round-robin were complete; i.e. every boat sailed against every other boat.
OTOH, it is highly likely that the top boats finished on top overall by the
end of the regatta. Probably some mid-fleet boats could have been in the
"wrong" fleet as would have transpired more round-robin races.

I was at a Thistle regatta that used this 4-group method for the whole
regatta, where the final ranking was determined by the round-robin. In this
case the groups were "seeded" by placing equal numbers of known hot sailors
into each group. Ties were broken by head-to-head wins.

Brent
<a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.bensonsails.com" target="_blank">www.bensonsails.com</a>

> From: "Edward Mitchell" <emitchell DeleteThis @ieee.org>
> Newsgroups: rec.boats.racing
> Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 09:47:20 -0400
> Subject: How to qualify 120 boats for final Gold/Silver fleets
>
> We (Hyannis YC) just finished our annual regatta and I'd like to ask for
> comments on our experience with the 420 class. We expected about
> 60-70 boats but by Thursday (first race Friday), there were 122 boats
> registered.
>
> Race management in their wisdom decided to split the field up into four
> colors: Red, Blue, Green, Yellow of 30 or 31 boats in each fleet. The plan
> was to have a round robin of three races. In the first race the first start
> would be Red and Blue; in the second start ten minutes later would be Green
> and Yellow. This would reduce each start to a maximum of 62 boats. A
> manageable number!
>
> In the second race, the first start would be Red and Green; the second start
> ten minutes later Blue and Yellow. In the third race the remaining
> permutation would be used.
>
> At the end of the round robin of either three or six races in the first day,
> the entire fleet would be divided into a Gold and a Silver fleet for the
> rest of the regatta. No scores from the qualifying round would carry over
> into the final series.
>
> At the end of the day, the first 15 boats from each fleet would be moved
> into the Gold fleet for the finals. The others would go into the Silver
> fleet.
>
> If fact, we only had time for three races on Day 1 but it was a complete
> round robin on which to base the separation.
>
> IMHO management didn't design this round robin correctly. It would have been
> fairer to take the top 60 boats from the three qualifying race
> cumulative scores. Picking the top fifteen was unfair to someone who
> happened to be in a fleet of top sailors but who would do well against the
> average boats in the other fleets.
>
> Is there a better way of separating out the players in a three day regatta?
>
> ISAF has an Appendix KE that gives guidance to specifying the SIs for large
> fleets (see <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.sailing.org/rrs2001/KE011102.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.sailing.org/rrs2001/KE011102.pdf</a>). This uses a
> reassignment of each boat to a different fleet each night (see Appendix C of
> Appendix KE!). This mixes up the contestants so they all will sail against
> each other. The selection into the Gold/Silver fleets is however done on the
> basis of overall score at the end of the qualifiers. Since the fleets change
> every night, it wouldn't be possible to take the first so many members of
> any particular fleet.
>
> Our results are at
<font color=purple> > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.hyannisyachtclub.org/quickresults/Regatta_Results.asp?NavID=9</font" target="_blank">http://www.hyannisyachtclub.org/quickresults/Regatta_Results.asp?NavID...lt;/fon</a>>
> that has a list of the qualifying and final scores.
>
> Ed
> --
> Edward E.L. Mitchell
<font color=purple> > Web: <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.racesail.org</font" target="_blank">www.racesail.org</font</a>>
> Phone: (508)771-0806
> 500 Ocean St., Unit 134,
> Hyannis, MA 02601
>
>