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Next: Help required
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External
Since: Nov 21, 2006
Posts: 1
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:13 pm
Post subject: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice
Archived from groups: rec>boats, others (more info?)
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Hi
I am a member of a Scuba diving club and we are investigating replacing
our outboard engines.
We currently have two Zodiac 5m inflatable boats (not RIBs) with 40HP 2
stroke Mariner outboards. These are reaching the end of their lives and
we are looking at replacing them.
With the new legislation coming in we are looking at 2 stroke vs 4
stroke. I am aware that few people use 4 strokes on inflatables and
fewer would manhandle them down beaches removing and replacing them
daily as we do.
Does anyone have any experience of using 4 strokes on inflatable boats
in this way? Are there any implcations to the angle you can carry/store
them?
Thanks in advance for your advice
Anthony Whittaker |
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External
Since: Nov 05, 2005
Posts: 442
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:43 pm
Post subject: Re: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"ajw" <whittaker_anthony.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1164143593.969603.31640@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Are there any implcations to the angle you can carry/store
> them?
>
Yes. In any engine with loose lube oil inside it, you can only tilt,
carry and store it in certain locations. If, for instance, you were to
store it so the oil ran up against the bottom of the pistons, oil would
get past the rings into the top of the cylinders, after a time as they
are not hermetically sealed. It could become hydrolocked with lube oil,
which would bend the rods trying to get it past TDC on the compression
stroke with the valves closed. If the oil in the crankcase ran out the
crankcase vents in another position, what a mess. Cranking that would be
running the engine way low on lube oil, the oil that ran out now missing
from where it is needed.
The permissible carrying and storage positions designed into the portable
4-stroke outboards is defined in the owner's manual. Check that before
buying them. They are also much more complex and heavy than the
simplistic 2-strokers with no valve trains, camshafts, etc. a 4-stroker
must have. How far down the beach did you say you had to carry these
beasts? It's also an issue.
I tried to quote from Mercury or Evinrude from a downloaded owner's
manual, but both websites tried to force me to install Flash players so
they could run code on my computer to spy on me, which I will not permit,
and, once that was bypassed, informed me I had to already be an owner to
download an Evinrude owner's manual, making me question, "What are they
hiding?", as it costs them nothing to let me have a look, being a
potential customer.
Larry
--
Turkeys will be cheaper, Friday morning...(sigh) |
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External
Since: Oct 14, 2006
Posts: 31
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:43 pm
Post subject: Re: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Larry" <noone.RemoveThis@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9882AA3ECF85noonehomecom@208.49.80.253...
> I tried to quote from Mercury or Evinrude from a downloaded owner's
> manual, but both websites tried to force me to install Flash players so
> they could run code on my computer to spy on me, which I will not permit,
> and, once that was bypassed, informed me I had to already be an owner to
> download an Evinrude owner's manual, making me question, "What are they
> hiding?", as it costs them nothing to let me have a look, being a
> potential customer.
>
>
>
> Larry
> --
> Turkeys will be cheaper, Friday morning...(sigh)
>
Perhaps I'm naive, but since when is Flash spyware? >> Stay informed about: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice |
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External
Since: Nov 21, 2006
Posts: 33
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:52 pm
Post subject: Re: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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>>
>
>
> Perhaps I'm naive, but since when is Flash spyware?
>
>
It isn't, however it is used for quite a few annoying ads.
Firefox to the rescue, the flashblock extension makes every flash object
just a button you can push if you want it to load. Adblock lets you
block ads, I really can't see how anyone can stand to use the internet
any other way these days. >> Stay informed about: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice |
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External
Since: Oct 14, 2006
Posts: 31
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:52 pm
Post subject: Re: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"James Sweet" <jamessweet RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:rqL8h.3525$_x3.2976@trndny02...
>>
>> Perhaps I'm naive, but since when is Flash spyware?
>
> It isn't, however it is used for quite a few annoying ads.
>
> Firefox to the rescue, the flashblock extension makes every flash object
> just a button you can push if you want it to load. Adblock lets you block
> ads, I really can't see how anyone can stand to use the internet any other
> way these days.
Yeah, I switched to Firefox about a year ago after finding out how much
spyware IE was encouraging on my system, and I regret the switch not even a
little. >> Stay informed about: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice |
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External
Since: Nov 10, 2005
Posts: 42
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:56 pm
Post subject: Re: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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I love my 4 stroke yamaha for it's clean burning and fuel economy but
it weighs a lot more than my old mercury 2 stroke. I sure wouldn't
want to carry it down a beach. Don't some of the new 2 strokes use
direct injection for lower emissions?
>Hi
>
>I am a member of a Scuba diving club and we are investigating replacing
>our outboard engines.
>
>We currently have two Zodiac 5m inflatable boats (not RIBs) with 40HP 2
>stroke Mariner outboards. These are reaching the end of their lives and
>we are looking at replacing them.
>
>With the new legislation coming in we are looking at 2 stroke vs 4
>stroke. I am aware that few people use 4 strokes on inflatables and
>fewer would manhandle them down beaches removing and replacing them
>daily as we do.
>
>Does anyone have any experience of using 4 strokes on inflatable boats
>in this way? Are there any implcations to the angle you can carry/store
>them?
>
>Thanks in advance for your advice
>
>Anthony Whittaker
> >> Stay informed about: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice |
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External
Since: Apr 22, 2004
Posts: 24
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:58 am
Post subject: Re: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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and don't some of those 2 strokes have fuel-to-oil ratios approaching 100:1
?
Not a lot of pollution there.
"Drew Dalgleish" <idontwantanyspam RemoveThis @thankyou.com> wrote in message
news:4563913c.423076468@news.cabletv.on.ca...
>I love my 4 stroke yamaha for it's clean burning and fuel economy but
> it weighs a lot more than my old mercury 2 stroke. I sure wouldn't
> want to carry it down a beach. Don't some of the new 2 strokes use
> direct injection for lower emissions?
>
>>Hi
>>
>>I am a member of a Scuba diving club and we are investigating replacing
>>our outboard engines.
>>
>>We currently have two Zodiac 5m inflatable boats (not RIBs) with 40HP 2
>>stroke Mariner outboards. These are reaching the end of their lives and
>>we are looking at replacing them.
>>
>>With the new legislation coming in we are looking at 2 stroke vs 4
>>stroke. I am aware that few people use 4 strokes on inflatables and
>>fewer would manhandle them down beaches removing and replacing them
>>daily as we do.
>>
>>Does anyone have any experience of using 4 strokes on inflatable boats
>>in this way? Are there any implcations to the angle you can carry/store
>>them?
>>
>>Thanks in advance for your advice
>>
>>Anthony Whittaker
>>
> >> Stay informed about: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice |
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External
Since: Nov 22, 2006
Posts: 113
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:51 am
Post subject: Re: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Are you off your meds again 
Larry wrote:
> "ajw" <whittaker_anthony.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:1164143593.969603.31640@j44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Are there any implcations to the angle you can carry/store
> > them?
> >
>
> Yes. In any engine with loose lube oil inside it, you can only tilt,
> carry and store it in certain locations. If, for instance, you were to
> store it so the oil ran up against the bottom of the pistons, oil would
> get past the rings into the top of the cylinders, after a time as they
> are not hermetically sealed. It could become hydrolocked with lube oil,
> which would bend the rods trying to get it past TDC on the compression
> stroke with the valves closed. If the oil in the crankcase ran out the
> crankcase vents in another position, what a mess. Cranking that would be
> running the engine way low on lube oil, the oil that ran out now missing
> from where it is needed.
>
> The permissible carrying and storage positions designed into the portable
> 4-stroke outboards is defined in the owner's manual. Check that before
> buying them. They are also much more complex and heavy than the
> simplistic 2-strokers with no valve trains, camshafts, etc. a 4-stroker
> must have. How far down the beach did you say you had to carry these
> beasts? It's also an issue.
>
> I tried to quote from Mercury or Evinrude from a downloaded owner's
> manual, but both websites tried to force me to install Flash players so
> they could run code on my computer to spy on me, which I will not permit,
> and, once that was bypassed, informed me I had to already be an owner to
> download an Evinrude owner's manual, making me question, "What are they
> hiding?", as it costs them nothing to let me have a look, being a
> potential customer.
>
>
>
> Larry
> --
> Turkeys will be cheaper, Friday morning...(sigh) >> Stay informed about: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice |
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External
Since: Nov 24, 2006
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:48 am
Post subject: Re: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
|
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> With the new legislation coming in we are looking at 2 stroke vs 4
> stroke. I am aware that few people use 4 strokes on inflatables and
> fewer would manhandle them down beaches removing and replacing them
> daily as we do.
> Does anyone have any experience of using 4 strokes on inflatable boats
> in this way? Are there any implcations to the angle you can carry/store
> them?
I have replaced a small auxiliary outboard on my trailer sailer with a
4-stroke, it's heavier, seems a little less powerful, quieter, far more
economic & easier to start. I've never carried it anywhere a beach but
its a pain to get into the tender.... (They aren't called tender for
nothing)
My club has recently bought a 5m rib with a 4-stroke 40 on the back to
'patrol' the races. Its nice, but the engine IS heavy, is more
economical, less fast, more quiet (See a pattern here?) My only gripe
is that once you've rescued someone, with the rescued dinghy alongside
and 3 people on board, the thing won't plane.
Unless you have light divers with light diving gear and light lead
weights, I'd recommend you buy a 4-stroke 60 for the back of your new
boat. It'll still use less fuel and you should leave it bolted to the
back of the boat, anyway.
Artie >> Stay informed about: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice |
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External
Since: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:41 pm
Post subject: Re: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 00:58:01 +0000, Gordon Wedman wrote:
> and don't some of those 2 strokes have fuel-to-oil ratios approaching 100:1
> ?
> Not a lot of pollution there.
Oh, really? How much pollution is a lot? (Yes, that's a rhetorical
question.)
Matt O. >> Stay informed about: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice |
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External
Since: Apr 04, 2006
Posts: 8
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:00 pm
Post subject: Re: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:13:14 -0800, ajw wrote:
> I am a member of a Scuba diving club and we are investigating replacing
> our outboard engines.
> We currently have two Zodiac 5m inflatable boats (not RIBs) with 40HP 2
> stroke Mariner outboards. These are reaching the end of their lives and
> we are looking at replacing them.
> With the new legislation coming in we are looking at 2 stroke vs 4
> stroke. I am aware that few people use 4 strokes on inflatables and
> fewer would manhandle them down beaches removing and replacing them
> daily as we do.
4 strokes are more efficient, reliable, quieter, and cleaner than 2
strokes, but they are heavier. However, a newer 4 stroke may be lighter
than an older 2 stroke. So look at specs when you shop.
I believe there are newer 2 strokes that meet environmental
regs -- I don't know about in your size/power range though.
Comparing specs is one thing, but consider what's available to you
locally, parts and service wise. Everything's a compromise.
> Does anyone have any experience of using 4 strokes on inflatable boats
> in this way? Are there any implcations to the angle you can carry/store
> them?
The small Hondas I've used can be laid on their side indefinitely. I
don't know about larger ones.
Matt O. >> Stay informed about: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice |
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External
Since: Nov 22, 2006
Posts: 5
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:46 pm
Post subject: Re: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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My Honda 8HP had to be laid down a specific way.
SBV
"Matt O'Toole" <mattotoole DeleteThis @letterboxes.org> wrote in message
news:pan.2006.11.22.18.00.11.971492@letterboxes.org...
> On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:13:14 -0800, ajw wrote:
>
> > I am a member of a Scuba diving club and we are
investigating replacing
> > our outboard engines.
>
> > We currently have two Zodiac 5m inflatable boats (not
RIBs) with 40HP 2
> > stroke Mariner outboards. These are reaching the end of
their lives and
> > we are looking at replacing them.
>
> > With the new legislation coming in we are looking at 2
stroke vs 4
> > stroke. I am aware that few people use 4 strokes on
inflatables and
> > fewer would manhandle them down beaches removing and
replacing them
> > daily as we do.
>
> 4 strokes are more efficient, reliable, quieter, and
cleaner than 2
> strokes, but they are heavier. However, a newer 4 stroke
may be lighter
> than an older 2 stroke. So look at specs when you shop.
>
> I believe there are newer 2 strokes that meet
environmental
> regs -- I don't know about in your size/power range
though.
>
> Comparing specs is one thing, but consider what's
available to you
> locally, parts and service wise. Everything's a
compromise.
>
> > Does anyone have any experience of using 4 strokes on
inflatable boats
> > in this way? Are there any implcations to the angle you
can carry/store
> > them?
>
> The small Hondas I've used can be laid on their side
indefinitely. I
> don't know about larger ones.
>
> Matt O. >> Stay informed about: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice |
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External
Since: Jun 28, 2006
Posts: 63
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:52 pm
Post subject: Re: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Nov 22, 2006
Posts: 5
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:05 pm
Post subject: Re: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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"Charlie Morgan" <*@*.com> wrote in message
news:fba9m2ten1htjsomebjpkuuai1go43ttbc@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 13:46:02 -0500, "Scotty"
<Scotty.TakeThisOut@Seidelmann.com> wrote:
>
> >My Honda 8HP had to be laid down a specific way.
> >
> >SBV
> >
>
> Did you find that a small inconvenience, or an
insurmountable obstacle, Scotty?
neither. it was no big deal. Do you think it would be for
you?
> Is it more of a nuisance than having to carefully measure
and mix oil into the
> gas, and keep it in a separate container for a 2-stroke
motor?
it was less of a nuisance than you are. I have several 2
stroke engines around here, so there's always a jug of pre
mix handy.
HTH
SBV >> Stay informed about: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice |
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External
Since: Jun 28, 2006
Posts: 63
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:27 pm
Post subject: Re: 2 stroke / 4 stroke advice [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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